Minecraft Forge - do we need it?

[presl]

Hey guys,

yesterday Minecraft Forge was released and maybe FlowerChild can use it for a more compatible version with other mods...

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/514 ... aft-forge/

The modding community of minecraft is, for me, the fastest growing I've ever seen, so if we don't pull together on the same rope, everyone work on his own thing and we will lost this great ability that we can use different mods together. So I really welcome such programmes which could bring mods together again, like modloader...etc.

[Thieme]

well i think it is just a bit of wait and see how well this is received and how many work it would take Flower to implement it. I really like the idea and the people who make this are also brilliant modders. They don't really look at if their mods "fit" minecraft but the mods nevertheless are brilliant and if something "fits" is mostly a personal opinion anyways.
I am looking forward to this, saw there was already talk of implementing this in modloader or the other way around. And ofcourse some extra block ID's are being looked at as well to fully replace MCE. (Although this may already be possible with a lot of work since Eloraam has managed to make the damagesubsystem go beyond 16 in her yet to come out redpower mod v1.6).
Even tho i haven't played Minecraft a lot these last few days i am thrilled at such an advancement as this. I just hope that some of these API's merge into one big API else it could happen that mods get incompatible because of the API's they use. It is not that i am too scared at this because at least Forge has a pretty nice headstart with IC, BC and Redpower that is going to require it. Although Aether's shockapi is supposedly incompatible with Forge atm so we will see.

[Zhil]

If it can unify the mod process for a lot of mods like Modloader did and provide a merged version with Modloader, this is going to be pretty great.

I'd say that if it allows BTW to run base-clean, that'd be more than wonderful.

[Xecaquan]

LOL I was just coming over to suggest Flower look in to it, as he continues to add more blocks we continue to run out of terrain ids (as well as few mods we can add to BTW). I know Alblaka (creator of Industrialcraft) decided to rewrite his entire mod because he only had like 8 block ids left, and to use this new MC Forge.

My understanding is IF flower decided to use MC Forge it would be a lot of damn work for him though, so please keep this to just suggestions and don't post any "You most do this" kinda of crap.

[FlowerChild]

Actually, thanks a bunch for pointing this thread out. I'm currently participating in the thread and evaluating the API for inclusion in the mod.

[Xecaquan]

Thanks Flower for at least looking in to it. I look forward to what plans you have for BTW but I have always dreaded the decrease in the number of other mods we way want to include with your mod as the sprite limit gets smaller. As well as the conflicts we try to juggle with base class changes. And Hell I think a lot of your own headaches would be solved at the same time with people asking or whining about compatibility.

[FlowerChild]

I'm always intrigued by API's to help with this kind of thing man. The thing is, other than ModLoader, there have always been a couple of major hesitations with regards to them:

-How much support it would get from the community. An API is only as valuable as the number of people using it. HOWEVER, I believe that Better Than Wolves has gotten big enough now that my decision to adopt an API or not may actually become a determining factor in how many others decide to use it as well. Plus, with SpaceToad on board (the Buildcraft guy), and I think the distinct possibility of Albaka coming on (Industrial Craft), I think if the three of us combined start using this thing there's a damn good chance that it will become a standard for the modding community.

-How open the API author is to including new hooks. There's zero point in me adopting a new API if I still have to modify the base-classes this mod uses to get the functionality I need for the mod. Obviously, with this thing being open source, and with the authors being both responsive and seemingly willing to taking me on as a contributing author, that's not a problem.

So yeah, so far I'm very much liking this particular API at the moment. I was briefly considering ShockAhPI, but the combination of him being totally unresponsive to my requests for information, and the number of bugs I've seen in the thing while playing the Aether (not bugs with the Aether itself, but with the API, mostly related to tool properties) made me decide against it. I don't think Shocker is the right guy to be in charge of this kind of community standard, and I think making it an open-source collaborative effort is a MUCH better idea.

[HavokSCOUT]

Unfortunately, on the IndustrialCraft thread(Albaka's mod), he said that he is dropping the mod for now due to a project.Weather that project is for minecraft or IRL, I don't know.

[FlowerChild]

Dropping Industrial Craft or dropping this API?

[FlowerChild]

Actually, dude, he's not stopping dev. He's starting dev of Industrial Craft 2 :)

Check out his blog:

http://www.industrial-craft.net/

[Zhil]

I'm glad this thread caught your eye FC, it really might be the perfect API for BTW to support

[HavokSCOUT]

Well, there's egg on my face.

[FlowerChild]

Yup, after a long IRC discussion with the people involved, I just officially announced that I'll be using and supporting this API. I'll probably be a contributing author on it as well.

I think this is a great move for Minecraft modding overall, and we have some real weight behind the various mod authors that have signed onto it.

So thanks again for pointing it out to me. I think this is a very good thing.

[Zhil]

Shockah from ShockAPI asks what you use fd.class (World) for. There's a big discussion on #risucraft on MC Forge

[PringleMan]

FC you just gave me the best news I have heard all day!

I agree with you that with the 4 of you (dont forget Eloraam is on the Minecraft Forge team as well) it will very likely become a major standard. You are all also open to the idea of adding hooks for other modder's needs, which just makes it that much more appealing.

So rejoice everyone! The major implication of this is that any mod that uses Minecraft Forge should be inherently compatible with each other to a large degree!

edit: Besides being extremely code clean to boot.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, I think this is the right move for the community. As I said, I had a long conversations with those involved over IRC and they are extremely knowledgeable in terms of what an API like this needs to work and be adopted as a standard.

Frankly, it's also nice for me to have a small community of serious modders to be able to talk to as well. We've already been going over a lot of common issues that we all face and potential solutions for them. I think this is a very good thing overall.

[presl]

Do what you want cause the API is for free,
You are a pirate!

Sry guys, thought that would apply ;D


Serious suggestion:
Someone who sometimes is chating with "important" modder (modders from the biggest mod ^^) maybe should suggest to constitute a list of tools and other useful stuff, which every modder schould/(have to) use.

should have the result, that it's ensured, that lot's of mods a compatible AND it hold the community of minecraft together as long as we look on each other what they do and ensure that an easy playing of mods is possible.

This should NOT be an request on the modders in this forum: DO IT, but I thought it would fit into this discussion, so CARRY IT OUT INTO THE WORLD!


(because you are free, because you are a pirate ;D )

[Zhil]

Someone who sometimes is chating with "important" modder (modders from the biggest mod ^^) maybe should suggest to constitute a list of tools and other useful stuff, which every modder schould/(have to) use.

That's exactly what Minecraft Forge does, you silly

[presl]

Make it bigger!

Maybe a seperate forum just for modders where they can post their actuall work, which .class files the use and I don't know what else with the sense that modders can talk together how to solve such problems like incompability.

Like the suggestion at the BTW and IndustrialCraft: both mods use rops and the suggestion was that mods should use the same .class that it works but this needs talking!
Or talk about other API's which we could need and how the programm it, who make it, help together, improve!


I think at the moment it's good time to start something like this, to bundle the modders together ;)

[sargunv]

Like the suggestion at the BTW and IndustrialCraft: both mods use rops and the suggestion was that mods should use the same .class that it works but this needs talking!
Or talk about other API's which we could need and how the programm it, who make it, help together, improve

Rope from different mods does different things. The zipline mod has some basic physics, can be walked on, etc. The rope from BTW is only for climbing and pulleys (so far). I don't like the idea of forcing modders to use one, standardized rope.

[BigShinyToys]

After reading all 4 pages of distinction on the http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/514 ... ge__st__60 site I can truly say I'm excited . As a end user of mods I have never really liked having to download Like 3 or 4 mods to make one work. like trains and zeppelins requires Modloader ModloaderMP audio mod . Having BTW only require one (Highly compatible API ) will make life easier and extend the amount of mods i can use Or try before i choose the ones i will play with regularly With out having to manage so many Updates / New content / minecraft f Ups by notch .ect ... ect ...
And on a side note it is good to see FC happy again and with a group of his pears. You lot should form the Minecraft council . A council for the good of mod users and Simply things for mod makers. ( although i cant see this actually happening It would be cool ( i mean you could have you're own SMP map and Web site .... bla bla bla )) i was saying ...

Anyway This will be a welcome step in the evolution of minecrafts mod community .
( lets hope notch douse not break it totally in 1.8 )

Big Shiny toys

[presl]

Rope from different mods does different things. The zipline mod has some basic physics, can be walked on, etc. The rope from BTW is only for climbing and pulleys (so far). I don't like the idea of forcing modders to use one, standardized rope.

that was just an example because I read it just a minute ago...

but maybe you can, take the rope as example, put more features to something than one mod, let's say BTW, use. So the rope has the funktions from BTW (climb, elevator) and from zipline ( walkable) implented. But if you use just BTW the zipline funktions are disabled and the other way. If you use both mods you can use everything.

I have just (very)little knowlege of java if this is possible, but if it would be a way that could work.

And at the moment lots of modders rewrite their mods so it wouldn't so much "more" (a no-modder is speaking ;) ) work to implent such things...

[Zhil]

The idea is actually not too crazy. What I would propose is to standardize certain things within the repository of MC Forge. Toolsets if you will. Rope would be a good example or perhaps the cabling in IC could be standardized with RedPower, as was actually suggested yesterday in IRC.

This would mean there's a rope standard that can be used by all mods needing rope in MCF and all mods redistribute it, but since it's the same file, overwriting it doesn't change anything and one block ID is kept. Multiple mods will offer recipes that open up the same item (hemp or string or whatever).

I'll propose it to the MCF team to see if there's interest

[presl]

To put things together a last time:

I never played or heared about a game like minecraft, where you can use different mods together. My experience showed me, that if you want to play a mod you search your favourite and let's go and for a second mod you have another link-exe. nothing depends on other things.

but in minecraft you are NOT a lonly crying wolf (haha) out there. everything what you do maybe causes issues...so you are not a modder with your own mod, you are just a little ant in a big anthill. only together it can work! a very important person here said with java you have no limits, so prove that you are true ;)

Sry for repeating myself (in a way), but I was just showering and it crossed my mind this words would hit the nail on the head...I'm too much talking again... sry

[FlowerChild]

The idea is actually not too crazy. What I would propose is to standardize certain things within the repository of MC Forge. Toolsets if you will. Rope would be a good example or perhaps the cabling in IC could be standardized with RedPower, as was actually suggested yesterday in IRC.

This would mean there's a rope standard that can be used by all mods needing rope in MCF and all mods redistribute it, but since it's the same file, overwriting it doesn't change anything and one block ID is kept. Multiple mods will offer recipes that open up the same item (hemp or string or whatever).

I'll propose it to the MCF team to see if there's interest

Actually, this is not at all a realistic idea. Given that rope functions in different ways in different mods, we can't be sharing the same data for it.