1.2 feature discussion

[FlowerChild]

I've actually hit the max-height crash jumping off a block built at 253, 2 blocks below max height now.

I'd really restrict building to a healthy distance below it.

[Ferrus.Manus]

Also just noticed something else: skeletons drop bows (even enchanted ones) rather frequently when killed. There goes another aspect of the "tech tree" :)

Not really, since skeletons are harder to kill that spiders anyway, and the bow drops are still relatively rare. So since you still need to kill hostile mobs to get it it's not really an workaround as much as alternative route.

[Xekrom337]

Also just noticed something else: skeletons drop bows (even enchanted ones) rather frequently when killed. There goes another aspect of the "tech tree" :)

Not really, since skeletons are harder to kill that spiders anyway, and the bow drops are still relatively rare. So since you still need to kill hostile mobs to get it it's not really an workaround as much as alternative route.

yea, but late game you basically have free bows AND arrows. @_@

[Whisp]

yea, but late game you basically have free bows AND arrows. @_@

Late game you have definitely enough ressources to make all the bows you want and since we have the composite bow in BTW the normal bow is rather worthless. The situation with arrows is kinda similar, especially since your goal is to get a bow with infinite enchantment.
What I'm more worried about is that the mobs drop enchanted weapons and tools, too. This would severely nerf the enchanting system, if you can simply wait at your mob farm for a powerfully enchanted item without spending experience in multiple enchanting tries.
Would be nice to have a specific info though as to what kind and what level of enchantments can be found on rare drops.

[FlowerChild]

Not really, since skeletons are harder to kill that spiders anyway, and the bow drops are still relatively rare. So since you still need to kill hostile mobs to get it it's not really an workaround as much as alternative route.

Yes, I realize, but the thing is: you don't craft it.

That may not be a big deal for those of us that have been playing the game for a long time now, but for a new player, creating your stuff from the ground up is a big part of what makes the Minecraft experience rather unique. There's a sense of accomplishment that comes from making each new piece of equipment when you first start out, and the bow was definitely a big step in that regard. Throw in handing the player iron armor and weapons at the black-smith's, and I think it's a rather sad trend.

Anyways, whatever man: it doesn't affect the mod. I just don't think it was a particularly smart move from an overall game-design perspective.

Also, they don't seem that rare at all. Without checking the code, I'd estimate maybe a 10-20% drop rate.

[Kain Magin]

i actually have to agree with FC on this. Part ... well... all of the reason i fell in love with minecraft was the crafting, and everything that goes with that. While the "Rare Drop" idea is in and of itself a good idea... i dont think they fully thought it through... bows as a rare drop... meh, not "bad" per say, but coulda been better... ENCHANTED bows???? oooo hell no.... (insert explicative here) that.... Thats stupid.... like REALLY stupid.... and blacksmiths chests.... good idea... also not properly thought out... maaaaaybe a little iron.... maaaybe an iron sword... but nothing above iron... its a Blacksmith for gods sake... not a bleeping rich banker! (tho, i have yet to come across a town with a blacksmith in it.... lol. maybe one day ^^).

so... Minecraft gets +2 diamonds for decent ideas... but -3 diamonds for poor implementation of those ideas...


(sorry about ranting, just had to....)

[TheAnarchitect]

Maybe if these items had only a few uses left on their endurance bar. It makes sense they'd be heavily damaged if you beat something up to take them. And the Blacksmith was only keeping those old things around as scrap. "You want to wear an old holey pot on your head, be my guest," he says.

But yeah. The more time they spend trying to turn this into an adventure RPG the less interesting the game becomes. All the pre-generated structures they make look like ass. The story is worse than non-existent: it pops up in disconnected chunks that don't form a narrative but still make you feel like you are supposed to be doing something. Defend the villagers from zombies. Go kill a Dragon. They're turning the best sandbox game ever created into the worst survival horror fantasy RPG ever created.

[steveman0]

They're turning the best sandbox game ever created into the worst survival horror fantasy RPG ever created.

The worst part is that they've been on this track for more than a half year with many of their developments and yet it doesn't seem that Mojang has taken note of what the fans really want. I don't there are many people out there who are really more interested in new adventure aspects compared to awesome blocks like the piston. I think the piston was probably one of the last big additions that was met with mostly support (minus the removal of the launching aspects of it which in hindsight wasn't a huge loss). Before that was the note block and repeater which came out pretty close together and that was nearly a year ago.

[FlowerChild]

The worst part is that they've been on this track for more than a half year with many of their developments and yet it doesn't seem that Mojang has taken note of what the fans really want. I don't there are many people out there who are really more interested in new adventure aspects compared to awesome blocks like the piston. I think the piston was probably one of the last big additions that was met with mostly support (minus the removal of the launching aspects of it which in hindsight wasn't a huge loss). Before that was the note block and repeater which came out pretty close together and that was nearly a year ago.

You'd be surprised man. I suspect most of the whiny brats that constantly make feature requests, are exactly the type that ask for "more mobs, more combat", while the more technically-inclined players are too busy thinking about and building stuff to be constantly bugging the developers for the kind of features they want. As an example, I get the impression that *most* of the feedback that Mojang has received about wolves is the positive "they're so cute" kind.

I mentioned awhile ago that when I saw Jeb say that he was a fan of "popularism" it worried me a great deal. Take a look at the suggestions I get for this mod and you'll see what I mean. Obviously, it's geared towards more technically oriented players, but most of the suggestions I receive are for utter rubbish that has nothing to do with that. If I decided that I'd just "give people what they want", the mod would have been wrecked a long time ago. Most people inevitably just ask for the obvious to be added to a game, but if you spend all your time working on that crap, you never wind up having time for the really good stuff.

The sad part of all this is I suspect Mojang is giving their fans exactly what they want...at least the vocal ones. Also sad, is that I suspect the technical users, are their "core" audience, that serve to bring the more casual ones into the game in the first place. How many people have decided to purchase the game after seeing some insanely cool contraption that someone built with it?

[Catox]

They're turning the best sandbox game ever created into the worst survival horror fantasy RPG ever created.

Well, the "best sandbox game" is still here.
Now some players will and some other won't like the idea of Adventure oriented development, it's a matter of personal opinion.
One way or another, the problem is it's not very well done.
In the end, only aesthetics adepts will be completely satisfied with those updates, well... not so completely, they'll always want mo' blocs.

[Donzaffi]

The worst part is that they've been on this track for more than a half year with many of their developments and yet it doesn't seem that Mojang has taken note of what the fans really want. I don't there are many people out there who are really more interested in new adventure aspects compared to awesome blocks like the piston. I think the piston was probably one of the last big additions that was met with mostly support (minus the removal of the launching aspects of it which in hindsight wasn't a huge loss). Before that was the note block and repeater which came out pretty close together and that was nearly a year ago.

You'd be surprised man. I suspect most of the whiny brats that constantly make feature requests, are exactly the type that ask for "more mobs, more combat", while the more technically-inclined players are too busy thinking about and building stuff to be constantly bugging the developers for the kind of features they want. As an example, I get the impression that *most* of the feedback that Mojang has received about wolves is the positive "they're so cute" kind.

I mentioned awhile ago that when I saw Jeb say that he was a fan of "popularism" it worried me a great deal. Take a look at the suggestions I get for this mod and you'll see what I mean. Obviously, it's geared towards more technically oriented players, but most of the suggestions I receive are for utter rubbish that has nothing to do with that. If I decided that I'd just "give people what they want", the mod would have been wrecked a long time ago. Most people inevitably just ask for the obvious to be added to a game, but if you spend all your time working on that crap, you never wind up having time for the really good stuff.

The sad part of all this is I suspect Mojang is giving their fans exactly what they want...at least the vocal ones. Also sad, is that I suspect the technical users, are their "core" audience, that serve to bring the more casual ones into the game in the first place. How many people have decided to purchase the game after seeing some insanely cool contraption that someone built with it?

I must say truly i not like the new changes, the redstone lamp is buggy and the only thing of interest (makes for sense using the Glowstone with this recipe), i liked more redstone related additions just technical. But if someone suggest it the users that you call "the vocal ones" troll the idea to the ground with there one stupid suggestions about something like "push the button and destroy world bomb " or something similar imbalanced stuff to makes all easy

[Kain Magin]

kinda yay:

Code: Select all

Minecraft 1.2.3

* Fixed crash bug at height 255
* Corrected Zombies and Skeletons not burning in sunlight
* Corrected birch and spruce saplings not growing at height > 127 

as for the whiney little brats making suggestions. maybe there should be a group of "technically inclined people" making technical suggestions to Mojang? ::hint hint::

[SterlingRed]

I agree that the direction Jeb has taken the game lately is concerning. However lets throw in some perspective. Remember when Notch was in harge and every feature was incomplete and buggy? Look at the terrain now as opposed to beta. The difference is huge, and the new terrain looks amazing compared to before. Mobs are finally getting fleshed out a bit more and villages are getting a purpose. Perhaps over powered and by passing the tech tree altogether, but at least it's not just another useless feature sitting there. As long as Mojang continues to provide the sandbox, I will always get my tech tree from btw/btb. So the rare drops/blacksmith chests don't concern me too much. That being said, it's a very valid problem for brand new players. Creating everything from ground up is in my opinion essential in understanding the game and developing a long term interest in playing as opposed to 'i built a house...now I'm bored'.

I feel the 'need' to start btw over when the vanilla terrain changes. I don't like ugly boundaries in terrain that using old worlds would create. It's been a long time since i've run through the whole tech tree with btb so I'm looking forward to it. I created 26 worlds last night and used creative to explore the terrain looking for one I liked for btb. Jungles look amazing. If only they spawned with temple ruins... They are way too frequent however. I found them within a few hundered blocks of every world I generated, and yet mountain biomes were only in 1/4 of them. Also I saw snow and jungle biomes sharing borders frequently. I'd like to see Mojang arrange biomes by their climates, jungle progressing to swamp/mountains progressing to forests/plains and eventually to snow or deserts. Although it would reduce the randomness of the worlds,it would help a survival player get a good idea if he/she is traveling the right direction if they're looking for a certain biome or environment.

/ramble

Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing btb from the ground up, haven't done that ever, last time I tossed it onto a heavily developed btw world.

[Kain Magin]

/ramble

well said. but even so, the new releases are just as buggy as the old lol. tho they seem to be catching up on fixing old bugs... but still making new ones. thankfully they've released 1.2.2 and 1.2.3 to fix some of the more jarring bugs that cropped up with this latest release.

I would like to put forth the idea of a BTW/BTB based group of people who have a good understanding of vMC to get together via these forums/teamspeak/IRC/other means of communication. to possible come up with justifiable suggestions on certain features/bug fixes and send our comments to Mojang. ("Our" does not include me, I just had the idea, dun think i know enough to be apart of such a discussion group). Anyone up for such an endeavor? Would it even be a worthwhile endeavor?

[Poppycocks]

/ramble

well said. but even so, the new releases are just as buggy as the old lol. tho they seem to be catching up on fixing old bugs... but still making new ones. thankfully they've released 1.2.2 and 1.2.3 to fix some of the more jarring bugs that cropped up with this latest release.

I would like to put forth the idea of a BTW/BTB based group of people who have a good understanding of vMC to get together via these forums/teamspeak/IRC/other means of communication. to possible come up with justifiable suggestions on certain features/bug fixes and send our comments to Mojang. ("Our" does not include me, I just had the idea, dun think i know enough to be apart of such a discussion group). Anyone up for such an endeavor? Would it even be a worthwhile endeavor?

I hope so. A nice little lobby group could possibly have the power to actually be heard over the confused and uninformed voices of the many.

I so want that to happen.

[TheAnarchitect]

Yeah... Snowy jungles. I've tossed out so many seeds because of snow biomes bordering jungle. It just ruins my suspension of disbelief. I could handle snowy mountains next to a jungle river valley, but it's always snow plains next to jungle mountains.

I really wish that there were Biome frequency sliders in the "more options" part of world generation, so I could say "I want an all-jungle world" or "No snow, ever." or "Ocean high enough so everything is an island and I need the ships and boats mod just to get around in style." There's a feature.

As to villages: I liked the idea at first, but now I think they're a wolf. At first they served no purpose, and looked ugly. I mean, they are just hideous. The earth huts I dig out my first minecraft night to avoid getting eaten by zombies look better than villages. If I could selectively turn them off without turning off dungeons and mineshafts, I would. Now a ton of Dev time has gone into making them "useful" and "interesting," with limited results. And whats worse, every feature they add to them makes them more central to the play experience. They become harder and harder to ignore. Millenaire does villages way better, and I still wound up uninstalling it because the NPCs really just get in the way. I love the idea of more pre-existing structures, I'd just prefer that they serve little function beyond being discovered.

(If I were doing it, I'd make a lot of ruins, suggesting some sort of apocalypse happened and the player is the only survivor.)

[TheAnarchitect]

Standard Oak trees and the New jungle trees grow regardless of what's around them.

i.imgur.com/NgSi2.jpg

This has serious implications for automated wood production.

::Edit::

After some testing, it seems it only ignores other trunks and leaves, not things like stone. I'm still sure this can lead to more compact wood factories.

[walker_boh_65]

I don't remember seeing anything more then it just existing, but I could be wrong, so I figured I throw it out there, has anyone heard any news on what the wells were for in the deserts, were they ever for anything then just looks?

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

I don't remember seeing anything more then it just existing, but I could be wrong, so I figured I throw it out there, has anyone heard any news on what the wells were for in the deserts, were they ever for anything then just looks?

as far as I can tell they have no purpose and no purpose is/was intended. but I am not that well informed so I could be wrong.

[steveman0]

The sad part of all this is I suspect Mojang is giving their fans exactly what they want...at least the vocal ones. Also sad, is that I suspect the technical users, are their "core" audience, that serve to bring the more casual ones into the game in the first place. How many people have decided to purchase the game after seeing some insanely cool contraption that someone built with it?

I think that just goes to show that they don't really know or perhaps care what they are doing. Sure they might follow what people shout at them in twitter but honestly there is so much information on the MCF that a little strolling through will quickly reveal intelligent responses to many of their changes. Take for example the powered rails. There was tons upon tons of discussion written in clear elegant posts about what the system needed to provide both flexibility as well as ease of use. So many tips were provided by fans who liked building minecart systems and by modders who developed successful blocks that were met with huge praise and found use of the majority of large SMP servers.

They seem to jump on the silly requests because they are sure to get huge support even if it's a waste of dev time yet don't give much thought to those who make really good points and offer really good suggestions as fixes that could push the game forward. Just because a suggestion is popular doesn't mean it is necessarily good. I just hoped that Mojang had enough design sense to recognize the good from the bad but they continue to disappoint.

[Donzaffi]

I don't remember seeing anything more then it just existing, but I could be wrong, so I figured I throw it out there, has anyone heard any news on what the wells were for in the deserts, were they ever for anything then just looks?

i think the new textures have something to do with that, glyphes in sandstone, perhabs a entrace to temple or something lake that don't know but sure that the textures are used later in the desert wells