Intent: The goal of this thread is not to offer suggestions to FlowerChild or to propose elements to BTW. The goal is to discuss the ideas and philosophies inherent in both Minecraft and BTW, together and separately. Please focus your comments (assuming anyone bothers to reply) to those concepts. I'll try to focus things specifically on a particular topic and open up the discussion until that topic is thoroughly fleshed out (or has driven us to exasperation!).
Guidelines: Please try to limit your replies to the current topic under discussion. If you missed out on an older topic you'd like to revisit, please feel free to create a new thread to revive that discussion. Or do the same if an off-topic discussion prompted by our current topic really grabs your interest.
Discussion Topics:
1) Only veterans of the thread may propose a new discussion topic. First-time posters should carefully read the thread history and catch up on a topic or two before proposing a new topic.
2) if you propose a discussion topic and it is accepted, you are the moderator for the topic. You dont' get to propose a topic and then expect someone else to manage the response. Failure to do so will cut down on the likelihood that you're future proposals will be adopted as discussion topics.
3) Do not post to the thread solely for the purpose of proposing a new topic.
I look forward to some intelligent conversations about BTW, Minecraft, and game design.
Current topic of discussion: viewtopic.php?p=3881#p3881
Previous topics of discussion:Adjudicator79 wrote:Should BTW pursue a development style that is geared towards only modifying vM in such a way as to remain predominantly accessible by a vanilla player stepping into the mod fresh? Or should BTW be willing to break wholly away from the development path of Mojang (though not necessarily the feel and style of vM) and pursue its own development path that might result in BTW players basically playing a separate game than vM players.
Remember that all of this is asked while acknowledging that Adventure Mode is a completely different game from current vM. We aren't talking here about whether or not BTW should move to quest driven gameplay. I don't even really see that as part of the question. BTW is a mod built around getting the most out of the tool that is vM, not about creating a new adventure gameplay experience. So lets focus on the design philosophy aspects of this question rather than the gameplay mechanics.
Topic 4: viewtopic.php?p=2891#p2891
Fracture wrote:Transportation. We have a few systems currently, some formal (minecarts and boats) and others more improvised (pistons, tnt, etc). In terms of vM, BTW, and simply player-created technologies, what sorts of transportation should we be looking into? Should we focus on transporting ourselves more quickly, efficiently, and in new ways, or must we focus more heavily on conveying our goods, blocks, and precious furry (woolly, leathery, etc) companions?
Furthermore, should we try to progress that which we have already, adding functionality to the aforementioned forms of locomotion, or should we be working towards new methods entirely. If the former-- what do we need out of our systems? If the latter-- what new frontiers of movement should we explore, and why? What situations may call for new and untapped forms of transport?
One final thing I add to consider, as it's a theme that almost seems to become vM against BTW in a sense-- multi-block systems, or single-occupant devices?
-Fracture
Triskelli wrote:Okay, here's a good one, it's been bandied about since the creation of Minecraft, and many people have strong opinions on it. Hopefully by discussing it reasonably we can discover much more about the game and the Mod we've gathered around.
Why are guns considered to be incompatible with Minecraft? Or conversely, why are guns such a requested addition to the game? Does this negative reaction come from firearms betraying the Medieval "theme" of Minecraft, or is it a side effect of how guns are perceived both in video games and society?
I have a few opinions on the subject myself, but would like to see how others feel about this first.
Here's an interesting video about the gun in video games and culture.
~Triskelli
What we are going to attempt to do is to first define the term "Age" (with a capital A). What do we mean when we talk about an Age. Are there clear formats for deciding when one age begins and another ends? Obviously, FlowerChild's insight into his development process on this topic will be key. The working definition I stuck in the OP was "Age: Roughly, a distinct era of technological development with a beginning and ending point" but that is completely open to revision.
Next, once we've hammered out a general consensus on what an Age is, we'll look at the key elements. What does it need to include? How do we determine starting and ending points, if we decide those are needed. If it's more organic, as FlowerChild states, should we even bother looking for a clearly defined start and ending point? And, especially interesting to me, what are the differences between vM's Ages and BTW's Ages.
As much as I love vanilla Minecraft, there is no real direction given to players. I'm not talking about quest vs. sandbox play here, I mean progression through the technology of the game. Achievements added some of that by giving players an idea of how to advance at least for some of the tech trees, but it was very limited.
My own forays into redstone design was incredibly delayed because I had no clear idea of how to manipulate or design with the substance. Obviously, some of this is inherent into the community-based design of vM (or at least I think so, but that opinion is open for discussion). My proposal here is that BTW creates a clear sense of the ages that people so often refer to (Age of Wood, Age of Iron, etc). The question is, do you agree with the vM approach (which I take to be "throw everything at the player all at once and let them sort it out," or do you prefer the BTW approach of "technology inherently depends upon an understanding of basic principles required to advance to the next Age."
- - vM: vanilla Minecraft - unmodded, straight from Notch Minecraft goodness.
- Age: Definition to be determined. Right now, roughly, a distinct era of technological development with a beginning and ending point.
- BTW: Seriously? Do I have to explain this?
- Diamond reset: The idea that vM has a built in moment when the player realizes that, upon achieving absolute technological supremacy through the implementation of diamond in every piece of tech (pickaxe, armor, etc), the only thing left to do is start over - whether that be within the same world, starting a new world, or going to the Nether.
- Technology tree: A (usually) intentionally designed logical progression for the player from one technological ability to another. Compare to similar systems found in games like Age of Empires.
- Sandbox: A game design philosophy that avoids linear or semi-linear quest driven gameplay for complete freedom in the player's ability to interact with the world.
- 4X: The regular pattern followed in most strategy titles - "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate".