How can we improve the suggestion forums?

[Mrchaim]

So, i thought this might be a good topic to bring up - What could be done to clean up and improve the current putrid black hole that is the Suggestion Forums? I wanted to hold off posting this till FC was back, but i figured we may as well start discussing it now.

I'm bringing it up here since i'd rather it be an open discussion thread rather than a pile in suggestions thread.

Here's my thoughts on the current issues with the suggestion forum and what we could do to try and improve it:

Thought One: Removing the suggestion forum would do no good. We'd just get the bad suggestions being posted elsewhere - i think we still do get the occasional one posted elsewhere. Having it provides a useful channel

Thought two: The ideas, and the level of the discourse in the suggestion forum are both pretty crappy (Note: no offense intended to anyone here). This is mainly because we get a hell of a lot of _really bad ideas_ posted, and understanbly, people get frustrated and snap at the users posting these ideas.

Thought three: We get a lot of repeats, asthetics, and recipe suggestions, all of which are supposed to be no-nos, yet keep happening.

So, what can we do to fix these? Here's my personal take - Step one would be as long as the forum software allows it, enlist some additional mods for that, and that forum only. Step two - Create a dedicated sticky thread which is kept updated by these mods and has links to all previously posted suggestions (Might be a bit of a task to link everything that's been posted so far..., but if you only linked the non-banned ideas, could work). Step three: Lay the law down clear on exactly what will not be permitted in the forum, and then back it up with harsh penalties.

How I'd specifically implement it - Use the sticky thread as a resource - People can check if an idea has already been posted, and if they've got something new to add to it, post it to the the existing topic. Set some serious guidlines that your idea cannot simply be single-sentence things like "axels actually rotate" or "moar food" - If you've got an idea worth posting, make sure you spend the time to actually lay out what it is, cleanly and interestingly. Make it clear that posting asthetic, recipe, or duplicates of an existing thread will either get you flat out banned from the forums as whole (Too harsh?), or simply banned from posting suggestions, and permanently banned if you tried to get around this.

Similarly, if a thread gets locked in the forum, make it clear in the sticky thread _why_ this is, and whether or not new discussion (requiring a new thread) would be permitted.

I'd also want to figure out some way to encourage people to actually discuss the ideas that get posted - I know it's possible to have some good discussions in there (Stormweaver and I were able to have a pretty decent discussion on the idea of an auto-crafter, for instance). I suspect that simply implementing stringent requirements on _what_ gets posted in the first place would help, as well laid out ideas are far more fun to discuss than single sentence forbidden things.

So, what do you guys think, how would you approach things here? For the record: I'm not trying to say any of this should/has to be implemented, but i do love discussing and figuring out this style of thing.

Thanks for reading!

[grimper12341]

It's not possible. While your ideas should work in theory, you forget how idiotic these people are. They create an account and the first post they make is in the suggestion forum (with a total lack of punctuation as well), and never post anywhere else. Do you really think that kind of person would even bother to look at a sticky?

The only possible alternative is already in place, which is the golden suggestions thread in the flying turtle subforum. If anything good ever comes up, it will go in there where FC will read it, and he should never even bother to look at the suggestion subforum.

[Mrchaim]

It's not possible. While your ideas should work in theory, you forget how idiotic these people are. They create an account and the first post they make is in the suggestion forum (with a total lack of punctuation as well), and never post anywhere else. Do you really think that kind of person would even bother to look at a sticky?

The only possible alternative is already in place, which is the golden suggestions thread in the flying turtle subforum. If anything good ever comes up, it will go in there where FC will read it, and he should never even bother to look at the suggestion subforum.

That's an extremely cynical take, to be honest (Just like your sig says!) - and that's why i made the suggestion of outright banning things, and the people who post them - The way you deal with idiots is to not give them an inch to be idiots in. And while the Gold Suggestion Feature thing is not a bad idea, and does seem to work to some degree, it does not do anything to drive conversation in the main suggestion forum, which would help to at least develop ideas further, possibly to great benefit.

Put another way - i think the instant dismissiveness of things is another part of the problem. This idea hasnt even been tried here - but I've seen similar levels of heavy mod action work supersingly well to keep forums discussing far more volatile topics like religion or philosphy ticking over with minimal flamewars/bannings.

[Stormweaver]

Make it so you need to have been on here for a week and have 10 posts or more to make a new topic in the suggestions forum.

That's half the bad idea threads cut down instantly, and encourages people to stick around and see what other people have suggested, without being such a large requirement that people'll get bored and leave.

[Speltz]

Make it so you need to have been on here for a week and have 10 posts or more to make a new topic in the suggestions forum.

That's half the bad idea threads cut down instantly, and encourages people to stick around and see what other people have suggested, without being such a large requirement that people'll get bored and leave.

You mean by making another tier of users that allows them to post in the Suggestion Forum? If it's just going to be another rule, it will probably end up being as ignored as the others. And going through all the users to check their number of posts (and especially checking those posts to see if they were even slightly thought-out) would be a pretty big time-sink for Flower or the mods if they are able to do so.
Unless it could be done automatically (not sure whether or not the forum comes with that kind of feature), it sounds as if it would become a pretty major hassle for the higher-ups.

It does sound like it could help out a lot, though.

[M!C]

Make it so you need to have been on here for a week and have 10 posts or more to make a new topic in the suggestions forum.

That's half the bad idea threads cut down instantly, and encourages people to stick around and see what other people have suggested, without being such a large requirement that people'll get bored and leave.

I really like that idea. It just happens way to often that the first thing people do when creating an account here is opening a new topic.

I would be kind of nice to force to them to stumble upon the rules and stuff when they're trying to find out why they can't open a thread. ;)

[Necropolis]

My first post was a suggestion, and whatever else anyone may say about my ideas, I doubt they could be called trivial or posted without thought. I tend not to say things unless I feel that there is something that I can add to a discussion. Thus, I played BTW and followed the thread for weeks before I felt I had something to say strongly enough to warrant making an account and saying it. Just so happened, as it would likely be in such a case as myself, that the first thing was a suggestion. The ten post thing not only serves as a barrier to bad ideas, it serves as a barrier to serious posters as well. In fact, I would go so far as to say it would probably multiply the crap threads, because the plebs would simply be forced to make a bunch of trite statements in threads that add nothing so they can say their bad ideas, while people like me wouldn't. Personally, I'm in favor of modifying the suggestions forum rules to not include food items or things that are deemed completely disconnected from previous implementations in BTW, and just ban anyone outright for violating the rules. The number of times somebody has added in recipe suggestions and gotten away with it astonishes me, considering how freely used the Ban-hammer is supposed to be.

[Glox]

The ten post thing not only serves as a barrier to bad ideas, it serves as a barrier to serious posters as well. In fact, I would go so far as to say it would probably multiply the crap threads, because the plebs would simply be forced to make a bunch of trite statements in threads that add nothing so they can say their bad ideas, while people like me wouldn't. Personally, I'm in favor of modifying the suggestions forum rules to not include food items or things that are deemed completely disconnected from previous implementations in BTW, and just ban anyone outright for violating the rules. The number of times somebody has added in recipe suggestions and gotten away with it astonishes me, considering how freely used the Ban-hammer is supposed to be.

I agree, and i agree with the suggestion to make a sticky with all the bad suggestions, and maybe make one in the tech section too with common problems (wrong textures anyone? i've seen about 654563 topics about that last week). Yes most idiots won't even read it but some will. Just ban the ones that don't. And it does not hurt anyway so why not?

[M!C]

The ten post thing not only serves as a barrier to bad ideas, it serves as a barrier to serious posters as well. In fact, I would go so far as to say it would probably multiply the crap threads, because the plebs would simply be forced to make a bunch of trite statements in threads that add nothing so they can say their bad ideas.

You're absolutely right. Now that I think about it, some of these people would probably even go as far as hijacking other threads for their requests etc...
That would cause quite some chaos and you can't simply go and lock their threads.

[Stormweaver]

My first post was a suggestion, and whatever else anyone may say about my ideas, I doubt they could be called trivial or posted without thought. I tend not to say things unless I feel that there is something that I can add to a discussion. Thus, I played BTW and followed the thread for weeks before I felt I had something to say strongly enough to warrant making an account and saying it. Just so happened, as it would likely be in such a case as myself, that the first thing was a suggestion. The ten post thing not only serves as a barrier to bad ideas, it serves as a barrier to serious posters as well. In fact, I would go so far as to say it would probably multiply the crap threads, because the plebs would simply be forced to make a bunch of trite statements in threads that add nothing so they can say their bad ideas, while people like me wouldn't.

Well that's just a problem with the numbers I used. A week or ten posts would work as well and so on and so forth, and more intelligent people (or simply those less inclined to make useless posts) will either have an idea they feel is worth waiting however long, or will find an open thread already discussing the idea.

[Camerinthus]

I think time based would work better than post-based, because as many others mentioned people will just spam other threads to get their 10 posts or whatever.

What would work better is something like a week-long wait. (I'm sure there's a way to mod something like this in to phpBB). Then, I'd think most of the impatient people would either not want to wait a week, or would forget about their account by the time their week rolled around. It wouldn't stop it, but it would slow down the tide, I think.

[walker_boh_65]

we already have a lot of those things in a sticky, and tell people to look it up themselves, and we have seen how well that has worked. I honestly think there is no way to clean up the forum, then to have more people be able to lock topics, perhaps purely based on whether the turtles like you or not. Sure that make things extremely opinionated, but im sure im not the only one who dreads looking at the suggestion forum and seeing a diamond saw suggestion and feeling like there is nothing you to can to keep it from geting out of control.

I think time based would work better than post-based, because as many others mentioned people will just spam other threads to get their 10 posts or whatever.
What would work better is something like a week-long wait. (I'm sure there's a way to mod something like this in to phpBB). Then, I'd think most of the impatient people would either not want to wait a week, or would forget about their account by the time their week rolled around. It wouldn't stop it, but it would slow down the tide, I think.

as for this, i cannot think of one of the top of my head, but i am sure that we have had at least one or two good suggestions from first time posters, and plenty more who are not suggesting something stupid and continue to contribute positively to the forum.

[grimper12341]

Make it so you need to have been on here for a week and have 10 posts or more to make a new topic in the suggestions forum.

That's half the bad idea threads cut down instantly, and encourages people to stick around and see what other people have suggested, without being such a large requirement that people'll get bored and leave.

It won't work. They will just flood Discussion with suggestions instead. Again, don't underestimate the idiocy.

My first post was a suggestion, and whatever else anyone may say about my ideas, I doubt they could be called trivial or posted without thought.

And your first post was the exception not the norm.

[Kwilt]

It won't work. They will just flood Discussion with suggestions instead. Again, don't underestimate the idiocy.

So... then... instaban?

And if they continue, IP ban?

Do not underestimate the power of the forum-fu.

[Stormweaver]

Make it so you need to have been on here for a week and have 10 posts or more to make a new topic in the suggestions forum.

That's half the bad idea threads cut down instantly, and encourages people to stick around and see what other people have suggested, without being such a large requirement that people'll get bored and leave.

It won't work. They will just flood Discussion with suggestions instead. Again, don't underestimate the idiocy.

Make it so they can only create new threads in bug reports the tech support forum then.

For every degree of idiocy there exists, there's something you can do to prevent it. The trick is to stay a step ahead -.-