Why would people want compatibility ?

[SterlingRed]

I think a lot of it comes from a misunderstanding of what BTW is and the design intent behind it.
BTW is a game in and of itself. That is also its design intent, complete creative control by the author to create a coehesive gameplay experience.
Total conversion mods that change everything such as tfc or tc, are more or less viewed as stand alone or primary mods. Smaller mods that tweak things or add small stuff can work with them, but I don't know many players who would actually intentionally combine tc with rp for example.

The problem lies in that btw is not a total conversion and it fits so well in vanillas environment, people interpret it as a mod that can extend the other primary or core mods. They don't realize the extent of the unique experience BTW provides. This misconception is generated by people who haven't played btw by itself. They just spread misinformation and rumors causing the masses to chant "we want BTW compatibility!" I would bet the majority can't provide a solid reason as to why. They buy into the common fallacy of "everybody's doing it" They see all the other mods going to forge and think btw should too without taking the time to understand what btw really is.

I don't think rth will have as many problems in the community as btw does as from the very start being labeled as a total conversion, it will immediately separate it from everything else. I imagine the compatibility requests will still continue but it will be more apparent to the average user as to why that wouldn't be the best idea.

As far as how to change the communities perspective of btw, I don't know. Get them to play it.

[Kombucha]

Minecraft is a game that encourages customization. As a result desire to create a unique experience by selecting and combining various mods is only natural.

I myself really appreciate the added challenge BTW brings to the game, but it's not enough sometimes. In an ideal world I'd be running BTW, Zombie Awareness, and The Wasteland Mod by default. But sadly Zombie Awareness is Forge now (I don't know why. If I recall correctly, it was compatible with BTW after FC moved away from Forge compatibility) and the buck is continuously being passed on Wasteland without any progress being made. BTW has become a staple for me, so really I wish more mods were compatible with BTW, not the other way around.

I've high hopes for RTH as what little information we've been given suggests a unique environment generation and increased mob difficulty, which is what I liked using the above for.

[elustran]

Unfortunately, Forge failed as a mod API suitable for BTW, and Minecraft *still* hasn't made a mod API. The game is probably better for not sticking with Forge because it meant FC didn't have to mess with compatibility and politics.

Not to be "that guy" more than once this thread... BTW still uses parts of an old version of Forge. It's not enough for "compatibility"; it's allowed by the Forge license. FC moved away from all the parts he needed to rewrite, and left the pieces he didn't need to mess with.

That doesn't actually disagree with anything I said. Yeah, there's still some legacy code from BTW's Forge days, but hey, that's how it goes.

[Sarudak]

Ok the one reason I would like compatibility is that I basically consider BTW as the true minecraft. Playing without it is rather distasteful to me. When I'm trying out another mod, like say thaumcraft, I want all the things that BTW introduces. I hate being without mouldings, corners, sidings, etc. I hate having to live without all the wonderful tweaks that BTW does to the base game (the hardcore modes, animals eating wheat off the ground). And I miss fundamental blocks that I've become so accustomed to (block detectors, lens, block dispenser, cauldron). Overall the game feels so much less without better than wolves that it makes it hard for me to play any other mod. Naturally I'm still against someone ripping off his work. But if FC ever did decide to take BTW back to forge I would be happy about it.

[FlowerChild]

But if FC ever did decide to take BTW back to forge I would be happy about it.

Only to the extent that you would be happy to watch me slowly die inside and drift away from adding anything new to MC :)

[Sarudak]

Only to the extent that you would be happy to watch me slowly die inside and drift away from adding anything new to MC :)

Well I say what I say with the full confidence that you would only ever do so if for whatever reason you really did want to and as such it would not have a negative effect on your continued modding. :)

[FlowerChild]

Well I say what I say with the full confidence that you would only ever do so if for whatever reason you really did want to and as such it would not have a negative effect on your continued modding. :)

Absolutely, but of course that's the reason why I would never do such a thing.

And really guys, that's where the "I want compatibility" statements fall on their face, because the scenario you're desiring would effectively end me modding Minecraft one way or another. So, in other words, you're not talking about getting BTW working with other mods...you're talking about bringing its development to a close.

I am a principled individual that mods because I *enjoy* it. Going to Forge would involve so many personal compromises to my own integrity and remove so many of the elements that I enjoy about it, that it would effectively kill my love of doing so. You can look back to the thread where I was considering leaving the Forge to see what being part of it was doing to me back then.

Given that, I'd also like to point out that statements on your desire for compatibility, especially the wall of text ones that are popping up here, are in rather poor taste given the overall situation at hand.

Keep in mind that what some of you are doing here is akin to watching someone being mugged and standing on the side-lines saying "man...I wish I had 5 bucks". Obviously, that won't be well received by the party being mugged, and is unlikely to be forgotten.

[Ethinolicbob]

I know precisely where you are coming from Sarudak.
When I play BTW so much of it feels like it is native to vMC. All these tweaks and modes and whatnot just feel so natural that i often mistake them for vMC.
So on the occasion when I play with something else I end up with the feeling that I am playing with foo mod + half of vMC.
In the end it just makes the overall experience feel broken and I loose that sense of immersion.
So that is why I am of the opinion that for me to enjoy any other major mod it would have to be an addon of BTW.
Simply being compatible is not really enough. It would have to take the BTW philosophies and build upon them.

[Sarudak]

Come on man. You know I support you in this and that if I had some way of ending this whole better with forge thing I would.

On your analogy being able to articulate why one would want money is in no way equivalent to watching someone getting mugged and doing nothing about it. Acknowledging a desire for a certain end is in now way the same as supporting or even condoning the means through which such an end might be acquired.

You even yourself mentioned that you had entertained the notion before this whole BWF thing.

I think I misspoke in my last sentence though. I don't desire for BTW to go back to forge. I would be happy if there were more compatibility between BTW and other mods. I still have some hope some of this maybe be achieved if the official API ever becomes a reality.

If me expressing myself on this subject bothers you that's fine and I won't talk about it. But I resent the implication that just by talking about why compatibility could be desirable I'm somehow supporting or condoning the acts of someone ripping off your work because I certainly don't.

[Battosay]

Edit : Sarudak phrased my thoughts much better than I could, so this post is pointless ^^

[FlowerChild]

Come on man. You know I support you in this and that if I had some way of ending this whole better with forge thing I would.

Oh Sar, I wasn't referring to you with any of that man. What I said was just flowing from the point we were discussing. You can consider my direct response to have ended with the first sentence :)

I know you've got my back man, and I didn't consider what you said out of line in the least.

I was referring more to BigShiny's and PoppyCock's (the second in particular, at least Big made a statement of disapproval for what's going on in his post) wall of texts about wanting compatibility, with me not remembering having seen a single statement from either of them supporting what's going on with me right now.

I read the two of those right before going to bed last night, and let's just say they made a lasting impression :)

[Sarudak]

Ok. :)

I can definitely see why PoppyCock's post would have bothered you now that I read it in that light.

[FlowerChild]

Ok. :)

I can definitely see why PoppyCock's post would have bothered you now that I read it in that light.

Well, BigShiny's *began* to get to me a bit, then when it was followed by Poppy's...yeah, I was not a happy camper.

Again...considering what's been going on as of late, when I see a person not utter a single word in my defense, then go on a wall of text rant about compatibility when given the opportunity in a thread like this...well, it makes it pretty apparent where their loyalties and motivation lay, and it makes it very difficult for me not to take what they're saying personally.

My apologies for the confusion man. I'm still having my morning coffee, and should have clearly delimited where I was responding to you and where I was making a general statement.

[Sarudak]

My apologies for the confusion man. I'm still having my morning coffee, and should have clearly delimited where I was responding to you and where I was making a general statement.

No worries. We're cool :)

[ada221]

I personally dont care about compatibility. to me BTW IS minecraft. if there were any compatibilities and
I installed mods alongside BTW I would view those as the additions, not BTW. I say keep on trucking and finish BTW and move on to RTH like the original plan, if they wanna whine, let them whine while we leave them behind.

[finite8]

Perhaps this thread should be locked. Emotions are running high, and we are all jumping to conclusions and left some of us on the defensive. I'm all for open discussion, but this topic has already left a bit of a sour taste (and is open for some nasty trolling too).

[FlowerChild]

Perhaps this thread should be locked. Emotions are running high, and we are all jumping to conclusions and left some of us on the defensive. I'm all for open discussion, but this topic has already left a bit of a sour taste (and is open for some nasty trolling too).

Yup...I agree. Now is just not the time for such a discussion given the overall context. It's very hard for me to not look at statements in favor of compatibility at present without taking it personally.

Props to Battosay for having the foresight to split it off from the main BWF discussion thread before this happened ;)