Water Scoop (Shishi Odoshi) for post Hand Crank Power

[sarafin86]

I Had a few ideas for the gap between hand crank and wind mill but this one seems best.

Water Scoop

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Wikipedia explains it best

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A water scoop is a simple hydropower machine–that is, a machine used to extract power from the flow of water. Unlike a water wheel it operates intermittently, like a seesaw: A container (a bucket or cup) at the end of a lever is filled with water in the upper position. The container side becomes heavier, and so the lever with the filled container moves downward, which may be used to operate a machine drive. In the lower position the container is emptied, and the lever moves back into the upward position.
Because of their inferior efficiency compared to a water mill, water scoops are less common, and have been used in the past mostly for applications where linear motion is required rather than rotation, for example hammers in smitheries, saws in sawmills, and stamp mills in mining. They are also used for fulling and, nowadays, to operate animated sculptures in fountains.

It could act like a water wheel but it would turn the next Gear box on and off making it intermittent. That would affect later BTW Tech but not the saw and grinding stone.

[morvelaira]

From an aesthetics point of view, I would love to have this.

However, from a practical point of view I do not exactly see the point. The only block I'm aware of that needs intermittent power is the bellows, and even if there are more blocks that need it in the future, the turntable already adequately takes care of that need.

[M!C]

I Had a few ideas for the gap between hand crank and wind mill but this one seems best.

Water Scoop

Spoiler

Show

Wikipedia explains it best

Spoiler

Show

A water scoop is a simple hydropower machine–that is, a machine used to extract power from the flow of water. Unlike a water wheel it operates intermittently, like a seesaw: A container (a bucket or cup) at the end of a lever is filled with water in the upper position. The container side becomes heavier, and so the lever with the filled container moves downward, which may be used to operate a machine drive. In the lower position the container is emptied, and the lever moves back into the upward position.
Because of their inferior efficiency compared to a water mill, water scoops are less common, and have been used in the past mostly for applications where linear motion is required rather than rotation, for example hammers in smitheries, saws in sawmills, and stamp mills in mining. They are also used for fulling and, nowadays, to operate animated sculptures in fountains.

It could act like a water wheel but it would turn the next Gear box on and off making it intermittent. That would affect later BTW Tech but not the saw and grinding stone.

Can this actually be used to produce mechanical power? At least the one in your picture could never produce enough to even lift 10kg and I can't imagine one of these as big as lets say 2 m³ to power something bigger.

[the_fodder]

I really like this idea for a limited power / timing option that fills the gap between hand crank and full time power.
I see it implemented as a block that would be placed in the path of a water stream that would stop the stream for X amount of time and output power and dump the water stream one block down. The only reason there is a limited number of items (hopper/ millstone / bellows) that could use this type of power is the mod isn't finished with 100% of the blocks. Currently there are 10 items that use mechanical power and 5 are used to make or distribute it, So 3 out of 5 that could use it ain't bad.

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I can see using them on...
Remote hoppers where you don't want a long run of axles running to them.
multiple elegant timing devices using water streams... even more if it toggled redstone outputs.
'refeshing' items on long water ways so they don't despawn.
auto farms

[Stormweaver]

I think it'd be a nice addition, if uneeded.

a single block generating mechanical power for bellows and hoppers would be useful - maybe make it so the duration between powered moments is affected by the size of the water block powering it. On the other hand...I think it'd have to be placed a fair bit further up the tech tree to stop it making hand cranks/turntable setups redundant. No-one like redundant blocks.

[the_fodder]

oh yeah. as much as I would like to not have to hand crank to the windmill I think it would 'break' the tech tree. Maybe in the pottery level of tech.

[Stormweaver]

Well lets see what we get in the next few tiers - if a drill of some kind pops up anywhere, that might be a nice place for it.

[sarafin86]

I was thinking of have the timing slow so that in late game it is ether impractical or used only as power backup for the windmill during storms.
(Always wanted to make a backup system using the storm detector, turntable and a gear box rather than turning it off)
Pottery would take longer to do on the turn table.
It could be used with the turn table as a form of down gear for slower turning times due to the power turning on and off. Similar to one turntable slowing another.

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Hoppers would fill up in fast systems like mob grinders.

Bellows would take too long and the fire would die down.

Saws would take longer to cut things but it would work for some harvesting applications or cutting wood.

The pulley would never work.

In the early game levels it would be enough just to not stand next to the hand crank. 36 Hemp Leaves, 1 Hide and 9 cuts on the saw take a bit of just clicking. With the water scoop it would take longer but you wouldn't have to stand next to it. After getting higher in the tech tree it would work for special applications but otherwise it would just be aesthetic much like the wind mill becomes

[Stormweaver]

-snip-

Pottery would take longer to do on the turn table.

-snip-

In the early game levels it would be enough just to not stand next to the hand crank. 36 Hemp Leaves, 1 Hide and 9 cuts on the saw take a bit of just clicking. With the water scoop it would take longer but you wouldn't have to stand next to it. After getting higher in the tech tree it would work for special applications but otherwise it would just be aesthetic much like the wind mill becomes

- Turntables and saws now need a continuous power supply
- there is no way to get to the waterwheel before the windmill


...welcome to the latest update, I guess.

[sarafin86]

Sorry I haven't restarted since MC 1.7 Came out and I don't build new areas or large structures above ground so I never tried the hand crank on the saw or turntable. I just up date and see whats changed by playing. Recipe book helps alot.

[sarafin86]

video of a large one took awhile to find one

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[youtube]http://youtu.be/jKadrBPy-zY[/youtube]

[Triskelli]

You might want to use the (youtube) (/youtube) tags that the forum provides. =]

Anyway, nice find! I could see something at this size in Better than Wolves, though I do agree with previous posts about redundancy.

-EDIT-

Actually, let me get that for you.

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[sarafin86]

i was working on it :) I don't post on forums much

[M!C]

video of a large one took awhile to find one

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[youtube]http://youtu.be/jKadrBPy-zY[/youtube]

Yes, that's a bigger one but how much energy does it provide? That would be close to nothing in the setup seen in video, don't you think?
You could probably build a mechanism that stops it from tipping over long enough to gather more water which then could provide energy when moving downwards. The amount of energy would be set by the mass of this additional water and the distance it goes down.
That means you need either a pipe that holds much more water than that in your video or a very long one (to maximize the distance).

[sarafin86]

Yes, that's a bigger one but how much energy does it provide? That would be close to nothing in the setup seen in video, don't you think?
You could probably build a mechanism that stops it from tipping over long enough to gather more water which then could provide energy when moving downwards. The amount of energy would be set by the mass of this additional water and the distance it goes down.
That means you need either a pipe that holds much more water than that in your video or a very long one (to maximize the distance).

If you want one for physics purposes then this one works. (This is so impractical the way he made it in a boat)
Edit-I know he's using the buckets to float on the water filling the bins instead of filling them and letting them fall. But the ratchet and gearing system would work.-edit 11:37am 8/26


But i'm just trying to prove the concept and the implementation into BTW

[M!C]

Yes, that's a bigger one but how much energy does it provide? That would be close to nothing in the setup seen in video, don't you think?
You could probably build a mechanism that stops it from tipping over long enough to gather more water which then could provide energy when moving downwards. The amount of energy would be set by the mass of this additional water and the distance it goes down.
That means you need either a pipe that holds much more water than that in your video or a very long one (to maximize the distance).

If you want one for physics purposes then this one works. (This is so impractical the way he made it in a boat)
Edit-I know he's using the buckets to float on the water filling the bins instead of filling them and letting them fall. But the ratchet and gearing system would work.-edit 11:37am 8/26


But i'm just trying to prove the concept and the implementation into BTW

Wow, that looks interesting. It would even work for continuos power.

[the_fodder]

I think that you guys are focusing on the wrong bit it doesn't matter how much "power" it would produce. The question you should be asking is "What would you do with something that created intermittent power?"

[Stormweaver]

I think that you guys are focusing on the wrong bit it doesn't matter how much "power" it would produce. The question you should be asking is "What would you do with something that created intermittent power?"

Space efficient bellows and hoppers. Plus it'll look great should notch ever add hot springs.

[sarafin86]

I think balance in the tech tree takes precedence.

I don't know how FC has the Hand crank powered differently than the others in a programming sense. But if it worked the same way only automatic.(it could use a hand crank in the recipe).
I did a few tests the handcrank powers: the bellows, hoppers, and mill stone. It doesn't touch: Shafts, Gear boxes, Pulleys, Saws.
So if the scoop powered only what the only what the hand crank could use. it would work to power stuff between the two tech trees.

As for other applications the size and design would affect the practical applications.
A smaller one block design that made a flowing water block under (Fodders Thought) would allow tighter systems for the hopper and mill stone say to make on the way in farm grinders. My designs tend to be a lot more space cramped.(I only build under ground, in mountains, hollowed outsides of valleys)
Your right if it powered redstone then you could have water clocks or signal transition via water.
If the water above the scoop didn't have to be there very long to trigger it then you could have large sifting systems power by the drop of water from the other ones.
Use for hoppers that only turned on when you flushed hibachis like with a BD cauldron setup given fireproofing measures needed.
A different way to time the Archimedes screw.

My thoughts were to have it be a 3x3 sprite that needed water above it with no creation of water it would look better thought not allowing as tight of designs but most of it would be the same. But you couldn't power hoppers right next to each other which makes Fodders seem a little OP. Any bigger and the usefulness would decrease.

Any ways I can't think of them all.