Better Than Wolves Forum

I've been really enjoying the recent Hardcore additions to the mod, and I am especially excited by the hunter-gatherer aspect that has become a big part of the early game!

With that in mind, I've been wondering about the impact of death once you actually find a village and are able to settle down with higher tier food. Even if you are able to find your way back to spawn after death, there is no feasible way of finding the village again unless you happened to walk straight in one direction. Is death basically a complete start-over now, or is there anyway to carve out a semi-permanent foothold in a village?

You need to mark your path the village somehow, with whatever resources you have on hand. I find a block of cobblestone with a torch on top every 30 blocks or so makes the path extremely obvious. That way when you die, you can find your way back to spawn then follow the path to the village.

Once you find the village, if you intend to ever go back (especially for trading) you should probably work on building a road there. Simplest way would be to get a few stacks of packed earth slabs and just throw them on top of the ground along your torches.

Therein lies the incentive to construct roads and/or markers to indicate directions! Also using the sun as a North/South/East/West indicator and a compass, you can tell approximately what direction you are at any given time from spawn. If you find a village and make a compass and pay attention and recognize you're some distance to the North East of spawn, when you die and return to spawn, you can narrow down your search to find where you were before considerably just by knowing a general direction to travel.

Why do I suddenly feel like I should be handing out orienteering badges? :)

FlowerChild wrote:Why do I suddenly feel like I should be handing out orienteering badges? :)

I draw the line at selling popcorn soaked in the buttery blood of innocents for my beads.

My tip other than the obvious don't die?

Don't settle down at the villages you find. Maybe rest and recuperate there, but don't invest too much time. Gather the renewable resources you need (seeds, potatoes, carrots) get a compass, and return to spawn. Build there or near enough to there to be able to find it again. At least this seems the most logical transition from nomad to farmer in my opinion, yet who always wants logical ;).

JakeZKAM wrote:My tip other than the obvious don't die?

Don't settle down at the villages you find. Maybe rest and recuperate there, but don't invest too much time. Gather the renewable resources you need (seeds, potatoes, carrots) get a compass, and return to spawn. Build there or near enough to there to be able to find it again. At least this seems the most logical transition from nomad to farmer in my opinion, yet who always wants logical ;).

Problem with that approach is that the villagers will likely die if you don't defend them in some way.

2 diamonds a pop man ;)

FlowerChild wrote:
Problem with that approach is that the villagers will likely die if you don't defend them in some way.

2 diamonds a pop man ;)

Only if you settle somewhere their chunk is loaded!

FlowerChild wrote:

JakeZKAM wrote:My tip other than the obvious don't die?

Don't settle down at the villages you find. Maybe rest and recuperate there, but don't invest too much time. Gather the renewable resources you need (seeds, potatoes, carrots) get a compass, and return to spawn. Build there or near enough to there to be able to find it again. At least this seems the most logical transition from nomad to farmer in my opinion, yet who always wants logical ;).

Problem with that approach is that the villagers will likely die if you don't defend them in some way.

2 diamonds a pop man ;)

That assumes my hunger hasn't already claimed them ;) I like fun rather than logical most of the time when it comes to long term planning XD putting myself in difficult situations in minecraft is great :P. I tell myself that as steve I only see my initial villagers as sacks of meat in between me and shelter ;)

JakeZKAM wrote:I like fun rather than logical most of the time when it comes to long term planning XD putting myself in difficult situations in minecraft is great :P

True. Hence why I like to make desperate last stands defending a village with only a stone sword and true grit ;)

Depending on your distance from spawn, you can just make a map. I've not only narrowed my village down to being south-east from spawn, but across an ocean, through a forest, and in the middle of the desert. The new map sizes are very handy for that purpose. You can also make a copy of it to put in a shelter-shack on a display block or something. Also, if you dig up dirt on your way, one block deep, and replace it with a packed-earth half-slab, you have an instant road that only costs as much dirt as you'll find on the way to someplace. That's what I do anyhow.

FlowerChild wrote:2 diamonds a pop man ;)

Ah, so is that the price of a soul in MC?

Considering i have a saw, soul sand and a hopper, the price of a soul seems pretty cheap, not 2 diamonds worth.

the price of unintelligent, docile humanoids, on the other hand...

jorgebonafe wrote:

FlowerChild wrote:2 diamonds a pop man ;)

Ah, so is that the price of a soul in MC?

That's the price of a roll in the hay in MC. Or is it the price to watch....

jorgebonafe wrote:

FlowerChild wrote:2 diamonds a pop man ;)

Ah, so is that the price of a soul in MC?

Nah, that's just the bribe it takes to get an uncorrupted one released for use. My advice for villages is to give them all the old Amontillado treatment, get a compass together and path your way back to spawn with maybe a couple seeds to plant back there. Start building roads from base to spawn, base to village, etc. Do the roads before starting a serious expansion base near the village or you are likely to regret it.

DaveYanakov wrote: Nah, that's just the bribe it takes to get an uncorrupted one released for use. My advice for villages is to give them all the old Amontillado treatment, get a compass together and path your way back to spawn with maybe a couple seeds to plant back there. Start building roads from base to spawn, base to village, etc. Do the roads before starting a serious expansion base near the village or you are likely to regret it.

The "Amontillado treatment" (as you so aptly put it...I think that will be my own term for it from now on), is actually a major design issue I'm going to try to address, and a very tricky one at that.

Village defense is a hell of a lot of fun (see my previous comments on desperately defending a village with only a stone sword and true grit), which is unfortunately almost completely eliminated from the game by the ability to just wall doors over.

Like I said, it's an extremely tricky one, but I'm going to give it my best shot ;)

Losing a village because you stumble cross it while injured or because the zombies spawned across town and ate half the village before you could get to them is incredibly depressing to me. The villager AI seems to like putting half the village in a single building and the other half scattered about and it's really difficult to carry both a full expedition and the makings of a protected area for something the size of even a small village.

You know I have faith but this one has me worried that it can be made fun without a huge amount of your time being sunk into it. All I can do is say good luck to you and keep my fingers crossed.

Play in Hardcore Difficulty, then it wont be a problem.

DaveYanakov wrote:The villager AI seems to like putting half the village in a single building and the other half scattered about and it's really difficult to carry both a full expedition and the makings of a protected area for something the size of even a small village.

That's why you knock out the doors in all but one structure ;]

DaveYanakov wrote:Losing a village because you stumble cross it while injured or because the zombies spawned across town and ate half the village before you could get to them is incredibly depressing to me. The villager AI seems to like putting half the village in a single building and the other half scattered about and it's really difficult to carry both a full expedition and the makings of a protected area for something the size of even a small village.

You know I have faith but this one has me worried that it can be made fun without a huge amount of your time being sunk into it. All I can do is say good luck to you and keep my fingers crossed.

Well, the thing is about them getting attacked while they're within monster spawn range is actually pretty cool when viewed from an in-game standpoint rather than viewing it as a failure of the game engine. This is part of what I've been trying to do in integrating aspects of that into story elements. If you accept it at that level, then it becomes a question of realizing that if you explore a region, you're also potentially dooming any villages in the nearby area.

I suspect Steve needs to be wearing a bell around his neck :)

But that's actually not related to what I was talking about above, given that in order to wall up doors, you have to actually find and go to a village.

And yeah, it's a hairy problem to be sure, but one I think I can integrate without *too* much effort into my existing plans for HC Villagers.

FlowerChild wrote: Village defense is a hell of a lot of fun (see my previous comments on desperately defending a village with only a stone sword and true grit), which is unfortunately almost completely eliminated from the game by the ability to just wall doors over.

Like I said, it's an extremely tricky one, but I'm going to give it my best shot ;)

Huh I might not slaughter my next village after all ;) and I am very excited to hear this. While I gain no satisfaction and it feels obscenely meta gamey to just put a block in front of the door, path of least resistance and all that as villagers are dumber than a sack of hammers. But actually defending my villagers for real? Sounds pretty awesome :-). I'll just have to eat them later....