New Release! (BTW V3.52)

[gftweek]

Honestly, I thought this would be a lot easier to figure out.

The use of Tallow and Hellfire Dust in the dynamite recipe suggests that the Hellfire Dust has acidic properties and is a substitute for the use of Sulfuric and Nitric Acid in the real world production of Nitroglycerin (with the Tallow providing the Glycerin).

To neutralize an acid, you'd need a base. And there's only one item in the mod that is related to a strong base (Caustic Potash or Lye).

And if you keep using more science and chemistry, I'm in my element, that's gonna be awesome :)

Yes and that is great for you Battosay, and for those with some chemistry knowledge (I haven't used mine for 15 years though). I also must profess ignorance to the exact chemical workings of dynamite (other than knowing some of the constituents), the acid-base reaction completely escaped my thought processes (plus I couldn't view the videos whist at work, so couldn't see all the clues).

Also in the past several suggestions have been shot down for trying to make things more realistic, so it wouldn't have occurred to me that there was a real world logic behind some the recipes, other than they seem to fit with the ingredients we have available.

Without that knowledge, working out the nethersludge would likely just be trial and error for me as well. With it I probably could have figured it out, but the same is not necessarily true of all mod users if they haven't studied chemistry. So for many mod users it may be too cryptic and just end up being a trial and error approach or a wait until someone else figures it out.

[Battosay]

I was pretty sure Potash was involved, given the new recipes for it, so I first tried with soap first, thinkin' that it would get the pH lower enough. Then I added a bunch of ground netherrack, because obviously the recipe would involve some Nether material. Switched for hellfire dust when it didn't worked, then removed the soap, since it didn't work either.

So there was only

Spoiler

Show

hellfire dust and potash left in it

, and that was it.
Then I got the "Duh, Hellfire dust, like for the Dynamite, is the acid here" moment :)

Conclusion : Thinking about it every now and then today, while doing what you do on a sunday when you get back from a week-long trip cleaning, washing your clothes, more cleaning, starving, go to the restaurant because the fridge is empty, etc -_-) and 15-20 minutes in game, along with a bit of luck, to figure it out.
Not the worst ;)

[FlowerChild]

Conclusion : Thinking about it every now and then today, while doing what you do on a sunday when you get back from a week-long trip cleaning, washing your clothes, more cleaning, starving, go to the restaurant because the fridge is empty, etc -_-) and 15-20 minutes in game, along with a bit of luck, to figure it out.
Not the worst ;)

Cool. Not so bad then, and thanks for explaining the thought-process you went through. Much obliged :)

Also in the past several suggestions have been shot down for trying to make things more realistic, so it wouldn't have occurred to me that there was a real world logic behind some the recipes, other than they seem to fit with the ingredients we have available.

There's "realistic" and then there's "realistic" man. We're still talking about the stuff that hell is made out of, but like all objects in Minecraft it has certain physical properties akin to the real world.

And I do believe if ideas have been shot down on the grounds of realism, it was because it was being used as the only justification for including a feature. In this case, I wanted a way of synthesizing Nether Brick. That's the feature idea and it has nothing to do with realism. If I chose to include *some* realistic elements into how I achieve putting that into the game, that's only because it aids in the suspension of disbelief in giving the player some kind of real-world basis on which to found his understanding of the process.

If, for example, I had made it hellfire dust and slime balls, what does it mean, and how would someone remember it? It's just two random items combined together. However, if there's some kind of real-world connection to the process, and that connection is being supported through consistent usage in the mod (like the Hellfire Dust/Dynamite thing) then it suddenly becomes a lot easier to remember the recipe, and the overall believability of the world increases, even if there's a heavy degree of fantasy still involved.

I hear you on this being a tough one though.

[DreamsofFury]

To be honest I'm sad that one guy ruined it and I saw the post....here I was rushing to mass some netherwart so I could get blood trees up as well....Oh well, I'll get to participate in the next puzzle I hope, this time possibly more prepared :D

[Kain Magin]

heh, doushebags will be doushebags... I'm happy i checked it after he got banned and his posts got FC'd.

[BinoAl]

So, should the wiki not have the recipes for new items until they are widely known? It's how I found the recipe for nether sludge ;)

[Battosay]

Nah, I think the wiki is fine.
If people want the answer, and don't want the puzzle, they can :)

[FlowerChild]

So, should the wiki not have the recipes for new items until they are widely known? It's how I found the recipe for nether sludge ;)

Sigh. I just don't know man :)

What I'd really love to see is the community working together to actually try and figure some of these things out, sans TMI, Creative, deobfuscating or what have you.

I'm trying to figure out how exactly to make that happen though. Again, I have some features planned where solving the mystery will be a big part of the fun. Just trying to figure out how to pull that off while not depriving most people of the intended experience.

Maybe when I release I should create clearly labeled threads for people figuring it out in various ways, so people can just look at those they wish to and not have the fun inadvertently spoiled. I fear most people will just default to looking at the easy answers though, and that's a shame.

[DreamsofFury]

Kinda tempted to build a setup in creative then change it to survival for these testing sessions....though with the way my base is coming I don't think I'll need it as long as I don't let my connecting walls/hallways become a maze like I normally do.

[walker_boh_65]

Maybe when I release I should create clearly labeled threads for people figuring it out in various ways, so people can just look at those they wish to and not have the fun inadvertently spoiled. I fear most people will just default to looking at the easy answers though, and that's shame.

There will always be the users who want a good challenge, so I hope that anything from this release would stop any puzzles for the future.

[Thalmane]

Another great update Mr FC :D I absolutely love having the ability to manufacture nether brick now, but I have one minor issue with it. Isn't it a little too easy to create it? In vMC you'd have to find a nether stronghold to get nether brick blocks but now the player isn't even required to walk one chunk away from his portal to get it.

[FlowerChild]

Another great update Mr FC :D I absolutely love having the ability to manufacture nether brick now, but I have one minor issue with it. Isn't it a little too easy to create it? In vMC you'd have to find a nether stronghold to get nether brick blocks but now the player isn't even required to walk one chunk away from his portal to get it.

I dunno man. I see what you're saying, but it's an aesthetic block, which I wouldn't be surprised if Mojang eventually includes a recipe for (and likely a lot simpler one than what I've put in...it wouldn't surprise me if it's just 4 Netherrack). Stone Brick was much the same, only originally available from Strongholds.

If you consider the work involved in creating automated systems to produce these in any real quantity, I don't think it's a real issue, and even if Mojang does include another recipe, this gives players an alternative use for their Hellfire Dust if they're left with a lot of excess.

[BinoAl]

So, should the wiki not have the recipes for new items until they are widely known? It's how I found the recipe for nether sludge ;)

Sigh. I just don't know man :)

What I'd really love to see is the community working together to actually try and figure some of these things out, sans TMI, Creative, deobfuscating or what have you.

I'm trying to figure out how exactly to make that happen though. Again, I have some features planned where solving the mystery will be a big part of the fun. Just trying to figure out how to pull that off while not depriving most people of the intended experience.

Maybe when I release I should create clearly labeled threads for people figuring it out in various ways, so people can just look at those they wish to and not have the fun inadvertently spoiled. I fear most people will just default to looking at the easy answers though, and that's a shame.

See, I'm one of the people that will just look up the answer :) As much as I'd normally love a puzzle around something like this, for the most part, I'd much rather just get in-game and play around with the new features :)

[FlowerChild]

See, I'm one of the people that will just look up the answer :) As much as I'd normally love a puzzle around something like this, for the most part, I'd much rather just get in-game and play around with the new features :)

Yeah, that won't really work well for the stuff I have planned.

[BinoAl]

Yeah, that won't really work well for the stuff I have planned.

Damn youuu!!!
*Shakes fist*
Although, I'll probably enjoy the feature much more knowing I had to work to find out how to get it ;)

[Elektrohawk]

(This message is with flowerchild as the intended audience, so take that into account when reading 'you' and 'your')

While I agree that figuring things out can be a fun and rewarding experience for some, it is not an enjoyable pursuit to all. Yes, you have created an amazing piece of work with logic, and intricacies, and I can fully understand your desire to try to help others enjoy it as much as possible, however, this should not come at the expense of forcing additional change on others, who do not want that challenge. To that extent, I think that part of the wiki should have spoiler tags, for new recipes. For those who do not get an enjoyment out of figuring stuff out, and simply want to use the mod, they can access that. For those who want the additional thought process, they need only ignore the spoilers.

Thoughts?

[Mr_Hosed]

While normally I find secrets annoying rather then fun (secret crafting recipes for instance), I must admit that when the bloodwood tree came out, figuring out what it did and how to automate it without really knowing a thing about it was wicked fun.

Unfortunately I prematurely updated my Minecraft this round so I missed out. As such I can't really say if this was a fun puzzle or not.

However, in reference to the wiki and spoilers, my meaningless opinion is post partial spoilers/hints for the first couple days or week of a release. After that if people want to reveal a puzzle without solving it, let 'em.

[FlowerChild]

(This message is with flowerchild as the intended audience, so take that into account when reading 'you' and 'your')

While I agree that figuring things out can be a fun and rewarding experience for some, it is not an enjoyable pursuit to all. Yes, you have created an amazing piece of work with logic, and intricacies, and I can fully understand your desire to try to help others enjoy it as much as possible, however, this should not come at the expense of forcing additional change on others, who do not want that challenge. To that extent, I think that part of the wiki should have spoiler tags, for new recipes. For those who do not get an enjoyment out of figuring stuff out, and simply want to use the mod, they can access that. For those who want the additional thought process, they need only ignore the spoilers.

Thoughts?

Where did I say anything about recipes?

Some content is simply designed to be a mystery, and where the mystery itself is an inherent part of the experience. What I am trying to do is preserve that experience, and thus the enjoyment of the features in question for as many people as possible.

Discussing this further without knowing the nature of the content I am talking about is pointless, and obviously, I am not going to share that.

Also, in terms of "forcing" people to play a certain way or what have you, I do that every time I make a design decision. People are always free to chose whether they play the mod or not, and either trust my judgement as a designer or not, but in order to do anything worthwhile, I really can't be concerned with their freedom where any particular feature is concerned.

I am basically playing the role of god of your Minecraft world here man.

[Kain Magin]

I am basically playing the role of god of your Minecraft world here man.

Woot, quote claimed and Sig'd.

Anyways.

Its your mod, build on it how you see fit. There will always be cheaters and those not up for any sort of challenge. I personally am here for the complexity of BTW... Not some stupid "GOD MODE" or "Easy Button". Screw the cheaters and the lazy arses... Make the mod the way YOU want it... Because when you stop doing that, that is when you will stop enjoying making the mod. I am sure all those dedicated to BTW will agree with me on this.

[FlowerChild]

Its your mod, build on it how you see fit. There will always be cheaters and those not up for any sort of challenge. I personally am here for the complexity of BTW... Not some stupid "GOD MODE" or "Easy Button". Screw the cheaters and the lazy arses... Make the mod the way YOU want it... Because when you stop doing that, that is when you will stop enjoying making the mod. I am sure all those dedicated to BTW will agree with me on this.

Well, keep in mind that I am a benevolent deity :)

In the case of most features, I am doing them primarily for my own enjoyment. In the case of working to maintain a mystery, since I can not personally partake of that mystery, I'm really only doing it for the enjoyment of the players (from which I in turn derive pleasure, but let's not go in circles about it).

While this recent feature was just a test of that, where I wanted to get a gauge of how the community goes about solving problems in general, if I am this hell-bent on preserving a mystery in the future, and invest a whole bunch of extra work in doing so, I think people that have been following the mod for awhile will know that it's an important part of the fun involved.

Some movies are wrecked by spoilers (like The Sting). Some games are wrecked by the same (like Amnesia). No matter what the medium, some things are just way less fun when you know what's going to happen.

[whitechaos35]

Added the ability to use the Lens as a light-level detector when used in combination with a Detector Block.

Sweet. :)

Added the ability to rotate the following blocks on the Turntable (if they have the correct orientations to make this possible): Anchor, Siding, Moulding, Corner.

Very nice!

Added the ability for the Block Dispenser to spit out items into blocks that are normally "replaceable" (eg. water, lava, snow, etc.). It should now eject items under the same circumstances under which it can place blocks.

I built a Soul Urn factory recently with a Block Dispenser firing into water over the hopper, only to realize that it couldn't. Thank you for this. :)

Sweet update. Thanks for the hard work. :)

[darahalian]

Would it be plausible (for implementation or game design) to make it so that cauldrons...er..stewing pots and crucibles only made an item if only the recipe items were in it? So if there were extra items besides the needed ones in the cauldron, the item wouldn't get made? Maybe only for certain items.... Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a suggestion thread, but I thought this might be a way of encouraging players to figure out new recipes more legitimately.

[morvelaira]

I'm trying to figure out how exactly to make that happen though. Again, I have some features planned where solving the mystery will be a big part of the fun. Just trying to figure out how to pull that off while not depriving most people of the intended experience.

If I may offer some constructive criticism...
The way you've offered this puzzle, and others like it in the past, is by giving us the end result (a new block or item) and telling us to find the path to it - like a treasure hunt. That opens you up a variety of ways for people to skirt the intended path. If, like you say, the journey is the important part to you, you should simply just drop the hint that a path is in that direction, and then watch us stumble along it in the dark and not knowing what obstacles are there - or even what we will find in the end.

Without knowing exactly what you're aiming for, that's the best I can offer. I'm always willing to talk more about it, but if nothing else I think the difference of perspective is useful.

[Elektrohawk]

(This message is with flowerchild as the intended audience, so take that into account when reading 'you' and 'your')

While I agree that figuring things out can be a fun and rewarding experience for some, it is not an enjoyable pursuit to all. Yes, you have created an amazing piece of work with logic, and intricacies, and I can fully understand your desire to try to help others enjoy it as much as possible, however, this should not come at the expense of forcing additional change on others, who do not want that challenge. To that extent, I think that part of the wiki should have spoiler tags, for new recipes. For those who do not get an enjoyment out of figuring stuff out, and simply want to use the mod, they can access that. For those who want the additional thought process, they need only ignore the spoilers.

Thoughts?

Where did I say anything about recipes?

Some content is simply designed to be a mystery, and where the mystery itself is an inherent part of the experience. What I am trying to do is preserve that experience, and thus the enjoyment of the features in question for as many people as possible.

Discussing this further without knowing the nature of the content I am talking about is pointless, and obviously, I am not going to share that.

Also, in terms of "forcing" people to play a certain way or what have you, I do that every time I make a design decision. People are always free to chose whether they play the mod or not, and either trust my judgement as a designer or not, but in order to do anything worthwhile, I really can't be concerned with their freedom where any particular feature is concerned.

I am basically playing the role of god of your Minecraft world here man.

It's possible I was misunderstanding what you were saying. From my understanding, it appeared that you were trying to decide wether or not to simply omit new patterns/recipes from going up on the wiki, so that people (were forced to) figure out the recipe ingame, or talk with people to find that. Apparently I must have been mistaken, so feel free to ignore all that lol.

[FlowerChild]

It's possible I was misunderstanding what you were saying. From my understanding, it appeared that you were trying to decide wether or not to simply omit new patterns/recipes from going up on the wiki, so that people (were forced to) figure out the recipe ingame, or talk with people to find that. Apparently I must have been mistaken, so feel free to ignore all that lol.

No problem man. No, I'm talking about a very specific individual release I have planned for the future where mystery will be key.

Otherwise, it's business as usual. I'm certainly not attempting to disguise every new feature that comes out for the mod :)