Better Than Wolves Forum

So the new version of DF is out. I am loving the changes because Evil biomes are truly terrifying now. Evil mist that turns anything inside it into zombies, blood that rains down and turns the map red, and rain that can make everything under it puke massive amounts. I Love it even if evil biomes are extremely hard to embark in now. I have had to reclaim my site over a dozen times just trying to survive long enough to get a base set up to hide from the undead and mist.

I am loving the new update and looking forward to the versions to follow. Anyone else been playing the new version yet? If so share your experience thus far :)

Boy that release has been a long time coming. Glad it's finally out. Sadly, I think I'm going to have to finish up my game in the current version, I suspect old games won't translate to the new version very nicely at all.

I'm interested, although unfortunately the guy who was maintaining Dwarf Therapist (great tool, makes managing your dwarves much more manageable) disappeared, so it'll probably be a while before it gets updated. I would hate to have to manage my dwarves without it, since my forts tend to grow very quickly.

I'll see if I can get it, I wanted to try DF a few weeks ago but couldn't get it working on my Mac. I'm not very familiar w/ wine and that seemed to be the only option.

The evil biomes sound really interesting! Hope I can get things moving.

Katalliaan wrote:I'm interested, although unfortunately the guy who was maintaining Dwarf Therapist (great tool, makes managing your dwarves much more manageable) disappeared, so it'll probably be a while before it gets updated. I would hate to have to manage my dwarves without it, since my forts tend to grow very quickly.

Ya I am doing the same before attempting a serious embark, hence the !!FUN!! attempts on evil biomes. It is worth the effort to at least attempt embarking on them just to see the hilarious effects mist, rain, and never ending undead that occur during embarks. It is worth downloading and trying just for that until DF Therapist comes out.

I'm tempted to give Dwarf Fortress another try, but my first attempt a few months ago was largely thrown-off by me really despising the UI. I find it makes getting simple tasks done way too difficult and suffers from some horrible inconsistency problems.

So, I wanted to ask: is there a mod out there that takes care of that and presents a decent GUI?

FlowerChild wrote:I'm tempted to give Dwarf Fortress another try, but my first attempt a few months ago was largely thrown-off by me really despising the UI. I find it makes getting simple tasks done way too difficult and suffers from some horrible inconsistency problems.

So, I wanted to ask: is there a mod out there that takes care of that and presents a decent GUI?

Unfortunately there isn't anything that drastically changes the UI, but there are a few mods that are third party utilities that make things easier. My suggestion is to download the Lazy Newb Pack. It isn't updated for the newest version yet, but it provides a lot of tools, tutorials, and posts on how to start playing. Sadly the UI does take a while to get used to and learning how to really play decent enough takes quiet a bit of patience, but in the end once you do you will realize just how truly great DF is.

I'm sort of in the same boat as fc here. I can get as far as setting up a basic base and stockpiles, but I suffer through it. I'm surprised nobody has made a better ui for it

FlowerChild wrote:I'm tempted to give Dwarf Fortress another try, but my first attempt a few months ago was largely thrown-off by me really despising the UI. I find it makes getting simple tasks done way too difficult and suffers from some horrible inconsistency problems.

So, I wanted to ask: is there a mod out there that takes care of that and presents a decent GUI?

The only thing I know of is Dwarf Therapist, but that's purely for managing your dwarves - very useful for handling them when your population gets to a few dozen (or even hundred). It's part of the pack that kregoth linked.

Also - DwarfEngineer (the guy who makes DT) appeared again on the forum, and said the following about an estimate for an update:

DwarfEngineer wrote:

Myr0ku wrote: Apart that, DwarfEngineer, can you just tell us if it's a question of days, weeks or even months ?

Days. I will have some time tonight, and if all goes well, might even have a preliminary release. Otherwise, this weekend is when I'll have a serious chunk of time to work on it. Given that we've found a lot of the major offsets, I'm optimistic that I'll have something in the Friday/Saturday timeframe. I'd really like to get it done by Friday because I know people will be looking forward to burrowing in for the weekend and playing some serious DF'12. (I know I am)

Apart from that, the only issues I've had with the UI are that I don't always know where something is. However, I've never had many issues with the keybinds - most of the common buildings are easy to remember (bwc gives you a carpenter's workshop, for example).

how 'bout that secsestion game that was talked about

That's unfortunate then, and I suspect I'll take a pass. As a professional game designer, bad UI grates on my nerves horribly, and while I can appreciate the depth behind Dwarf Fortress, , the UI is a deal-breaker for me.

BinoAl wrote:I'm sort of in the same boat as fc here. I can get as far as setting up a basic base and stockpiles, but I suffer through it. I'm surprised nobody has made a better ui for it

there are a few attempts, even one that uses autohotkey to use the mouse as one, but it was never finished. I understand the UI troubles people tend to hate, it took me a good long time before I was capable of maneuvering around it fast enough that it no longer gave me as many gripes.

I hate the UI as well it is really the one thing that really holds the game back from becoming more mainstream, but after learning it I am glad I did it. Dwarf fortress is unique and no other game can compare to just how epic it is and honestly is the only game where loosing is extremely Fun :)

EDIT: @Katalliann, Yes I agree once you get used to the key bindings it makes a sense. there is one thing I can say that is really the hardest part of the UI is just trying to memorize all those keystrokes :P

There are quite a few people working on Therapist ATM so I am sure someone will have at least a temp version out until DwarfEngineer finishes it completely.

EDIT2: @obl1terat1ion, until majority of the must have utilities are done I am happily up for maintaining a succession game for it :) Therapist and textures packs I am sure is what everyone is waiting for :)

Heh, Dwarf Fortress. It's been ages since I played that game. Same as FC, the user interface is just really abyssmal.

Used to do a graphics pack for it:

Gilberreke wrote:Heh, Dwarf Fortress. It's been ages since I played that game. Same as FC, the user interface is just really abyssmal.

Used to do a graphics pack for it:

Ha, those are awesome! I love the Dwarf prisoner lol.

FlowerChild wrote:I'm tempted to give Dwarf Fortress another try, but my first attempt a few months ago was largely thrown-off by me really despising the UI. I find it makes getting simple tasks done way too difficult and suffers from some horrible inconsistency problems.

So, I wanted to ask: is there a mod out there that takes care of that and presents a decent GUI?

It's funny that you say this, because BTW is steadily pushing Minecraft to be more and more like Dwarf Fortress.

If I recall correctly, the GUI is still on the "todo" list in the development notes.

And I was actually drawn to this mod initially by the immidiately visible similarities to dwarf fortress, most specifically in the mechanical power system. From the outside it seemed like it was the same system as in dwarf fortress, but it turned out to be much better than that.

GeckoDragon wrote:If I recall correctly, the GUI is still on the "todo" list in the development notes.

And I was actually drawn to this mod initially by the immidiately visible similarities to dwarf fortress, most specifically in the mechanical power system. From the outside it seemed like it was the same system as in dwarf fortress, but it turned out to be much better than that.

Welll...thanks. I guess that would mean a lot more to me if I had ever used the one in Dwarf Fortress, but appreciated none the less ;)

I'm really a DF noob. I've only played a few hours with it before I couldn't handle the UI anymore, so I never made it to anything more complicated than farming mushrooms or whatever fungus it was that I was growing :)

So yeah, any similarities between this mod and DF are purely coincidental, as I really don't know much about it at all.

I haven't been able to bear the UI to play it at all either, but I've read up about it extensively and am probably as enamored with the game as someone who hasn't played it can be. It does sound like a fantastic game... but there's no way I'd be able to keep track of everything with a UI like that and the default unclear graphics. I have enough problems with RTS's where I can see what's going on at a glance.

Better Than Wolves follows in a similar vein of encouraging player ingenuity and crazy feats of engineering. What it lacks is a reason to bother making any traps or base defenses. (It lacks a lot more than that, especially considering the differing genres, but that's the biggest gap between them in spirit, IMO.) Which is why anything added to or changed from vanilla Minecraft or BTW that creates a reasonable incentive to make clever death traps tends to get me excited.

What I used to do is cap the population limit at 20 and play that way. The game is still pretty challenging, but with so few dwarfs, the GUI is just manageable enough to make the game enjoyable.

That doesn't pose a problem with having enough soldiers to fight off invasions?

SilvasRuin wrote:That doesn't pose a problem with having enough soldiers to fight off invasions?

Back when I played, invasions where a bit "broken", so a lot of players turned them off.

I remember this one time in DF when a dragon got my base into a suicidal spiral tantrum by killing a kitty...

I had to war dog survive for 2 years in the first cavern layer with his intestines dragging from his stomach, all because someone forgot to put them back inside him when the stitched him up.

Also Dwarf therapist has been updated. Although there are a few bugs, like vampires aren't on the list and migration waves are out of whack, and you can set labors for children but its being worked on.

DF is an incredible game. But the UI is so atrocious it keeps me from playing it. I got practiced up using the UI enough that I could just play and enjoy the game. But it is all so nonsensical, and varied, that taking even a short break to pursue other interests sets you back to square one (or maybe 2 or 3).

Someone should write out the keystrokes needed to change a dwarf drom collecting wood to guarding the front gate.

Awfulcopter wrote:Someone should write out the keystrokes needed to change a dwarf drom collecting wood to guarding the front gate.

Well, wouldn't that involve just setting his military state to active? I wouldn't have a clue what the keystrokes for that are.