Better Than Wolves Forum

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/935 ... tttt-v102/

I've re-tooled the thread as a general discussion thread for the mod.



It suddenly occurred to me at some point that I should find it odd that I thought the concept of a progressing tech tree was a feature BTW ADDED, rather than something that existed already. Minecraft does, of course, have a tech tree of sorts. So why did it feel so new in BTW?

Well, because while the tech tree technically EXISTS in vanilla minecraft, the average minecraft veteran will typically ascend 40% of the ENTIRE TECH TREE in the first thirty seconds of starting a new world.

Punch trees, get wood, make workbench, make wooden pickaxe, mine three stone, make a stone pickaxe, never ever ever use wooden tools again.

All of this within thirty seconds. And if you happen to find iron where you dig for your first stone, you've ascended 3/4s of the tool tiers before the first sunset.

This... did not sit well with me.

AT ALL.

It was an unpleasant truth that would not go away, and kept bugging me, until I decided that something must be done about this.

Hence my latest mod, TTWTTTTT, or "Tech Tree? What Tech Tree? THIS Tech Tree!". Its purpose is to properly extend the uncomfortably squished-together tiers of the tech tree, making vanilla minecraft progress in a manner similar to BTW.

So here are the main requirements to ascend tiers:

1: Get all three log types to craft a workbench (shapeless recipe, one of each). Until then, you can fashion a makeshift weapon using 3 sticks and a piece of flint (shapeless), and a makeshift farming tool with three sticks and a wooden plank (also shapeless).

2: Find some lava, direct lava and water currents to turn cobblestone into smooth stone without destroying it, then craft a furnace with 8 smooth stone, allowing you to make stone tools.

3: Collect 54 iron, smelt it, shape it into blocks, and make a smithing hammer using the sign recipe, but replacing the planks with iron blocks.

The smithing hammer has been implemented into pretty much EVERY recipe in the game that involves iron or gold, and is also used in all diamond tool and diamond armor recipes. For simplicity's sake, the hammer's position in the recipe follows these rules:

1: Place the smithing hammer in the bottom right corner of the recipe, if that is open.

2: If it is not open, place it at the center top of the recipe, if that is open.

3: If neither are open, place it in the middle of the recipe.

4: If none of these spaces are open/exist, the hammer is not necessary for the recipe. Examples: Golden apple, flint and steel.

Other changes:

Bone meal doesn't work as fertilizer.
Crafting Tables and Furnaces cannot be recovered once placed.
Stone tools and the furnace, to reiterate, are made out of SMOOTH stone now.
Sheep don't drop wool when killed anymore.
Charcoal can't make torches anymore.


Any input, criticism, general feedback?

I'd like to see the furnace texture edited to fit in better as the crafting recipe has changed.
It sounds greatly changing to gameplay and will make players set up more permanent bases.
It'll get a download from me :)

So if I understand this correctly, you are stuck with wooden tools untill you find a dungeon if you use this mod.

That'll mean I wont use it, this makes it too dependant on finding a dungeon. Get unlucky and you are stuck with wood for a long time.

Zaikantos wrote:So if I understand this correctly, you are stuck with wooden tools untill you find a dungeon if you use this mod.

That'll mean I wont use it, this makes it too dependant on finding a dungeon. Get unlucky and you are stuck with wood for a long time.

Do you have an alternative crafting recipe for the furnace?

After obtaining obsidian in under 3 minuites, I know what you mean by there being no tech tree in VMC. I would love to see storm's suggestion of hardcore crafting and smelting implemented to this.
As for the furnace recipie, how about smooth stone? :P

The great randomo wrote:After obtaining obsidian in under 3 minuites, I know what you mean by there being no tech tree in VMC. I would love to see storm's suggestion of hardcore crafting and smelting implemented to this.
As for the furnace recipie, how about smooth stone? :P

I'm assuming from the :P that you meant that in jest, since that would make the furnace uncraftable.

RaustBlackDragon wrote:

Zaikantos wrote:So if I understand this correctly, you are stuck with wooden tools untill you find a dungeon if you use this mod.

That'll mean I wont use it, this makes it too dependant on finding a dungeon. Get unlucky and you are stuck with wood for a long time.

Do you have an alternative crafting recipe for the furnace?

There's nothing I can think of. I like the idea (a lot, actually) but finding dungeons being so luck-dependant could make this a extreme annoyance.

Anyway, I'll give my opinion on the other points;
1.
I like it. There's not a lot I can add onto this, really.

3.
Idea is good, the problem being the having-to-be-lucky with the dungeon.

4.
I never understood why this was in vanilla anyway. Other than to make skeleton dungeons even more usefull ofcourse.

5.
I like it, I guess the hammer has a certain amount of uses? The way I feel about this will depend on the hammer recipe and amount of uses.

6.
At first I didn't think much of this, but after thinking it through I realised that this delays beds untill after you have iron --> after you have a smithing hammer --> after you have stone tools --> after you have a furnace. Alternatively you can make shears with the iron you can find in the dungeon that you found.

I might give it a spin, but the dungeon dependance makes this still doable very quickly if you find a surface dungeon near spawn, or makes the progression soo slow. (Having to dig for a dungeon with wooden tools... *shiver*)

The great randomo wrote:After obtaining obsidian in under 3 minuites, I know what you mean by there being no tech tree in VMC. I would love to see storm's suggestion of hardcore crafting and smelting implemented to this.
As for the furnace recipie, how about smooth stone? :P

That's sarcasm I presume? :P

I rather like this idea, except for the change to the furnace. Depending on a dungeon, as stated many times above, doesn't sound very good. Using mossy cobble as an ingredient for a powerful, yet unnecessary tool like the block dispenser works well, because it doesn't impede your progress into the tech tree to not craft one. I definitely agree with the furnace requiring more than 8 cobble to craft, though. Can't wait to try this out :)

Haha, oh crap.

I'm working on the same mod. Hadn't mentioned it yet, because it's kind of a secret :/

Mine is entirely different though, from the looks of it. What I'm doing is pushing the crafting bench back and forcing the player to work with 2x2 recipes longer. Wood and stone tools all have 2x2 recipes.

Being able to craft stone tools on the go is a fun mechanic I think. I'm tying it into BTW, like beds needing cloth and such. Pistons come later into the tech tree, all that junk.

Ah well, we'll see, I'll probably won't finish it anyway, maybe I'll just play yours if it's good :)

Alright, looks like the general consensus is that mossy cobble for a furnace is out. I actually rather liked that recipe, since it would involve all searching and no grinding, and none of the other "search" materials in minecraft really made much sense for the recipe...

I'll think about it, but I could really use some suggestions for alternative furnace recipes :)

Could the furnace use iron? It's a relatively valuable material in this case, and it gives it a definite place in the tech tree. That could also allow for smelting ores (with some sort of nerf, ofc) without allowing you to skip portions of the tech tree

BinoAl wrote:Could the furnace use iron? It's a relatively valuable material in this case, and it gives it a definite place in the tech tree. That could also allow for smelting ores (with some sort of nerf, ofc) without allowing you to skip portions of the tech tree

Well how would you get iron without smelting it?

RaustBlackDragon wrote: Well how would you get iron without smelting it?

RaustBlackDragon wrote: 5: Iron and gold ingots cannot be directly smelted. Instead, you'll find yourself with a shoddy hunk of metal you can't do much of anything with. However, in the case of iron, you can collect a large amount of this stuff, you can fashion it into a smithing hammer, which you can then use to turn your hunks of metal into ingots for crafting.

Am I just misunderstanding this? I took it as you collect enough iron ore to fashion into a hammer, which then allows you to turn iron ore into ingots.

BinoAl wrote:

RaustBlackDragon wrote: Well how would you get iron without smelting it?

RaustBlackDragon wrote: 5: Iron and gold ingots cannot be directly smelted. Instead, you'll find yourself with a shoddy hunk of metal you can't do much of anything with. However, in the case of iron, you can collect a large amount of this stuff, you can fashion it into a smithing hammer, which you can then use to turn your hunks of metal into ingots for crafting.

Am I just misunderstanding this? I took it as you collect enough iron ore to fashion into a hammer, which then allows you to turn iron ore into ingots.

Oh no, iron ore is smelted into useless hunks of iron, which you can use a hammer to turn into ingots.

RaustBlackDragon wrote: Oh no, iron ore is smelted into useless hunks of iron, which you can use a hammer to turn into ingots.

Ahh, I see. Hmm... Maybe make it as normal, with a new component in the bottom square? It's difficult to think of anything :0 lol

No gynecology?

There are not enough sad-faces to express my broken heart.

:(

I love this.

Can I make a suggestion?

Get rid of diamond tools and armor. And create some kind of alternate use for diamonds.

Make the furnace out of Clay stand stone and cobble. ( will make it harder but not Extremely annoying.)

Cant see me playing this thought. ( If it were vanilla i would probably be happy with it ) But I just could not stand being at wood for more that 10 seconds ;)

[Edit] what would make a interesting mod would be a mod where you can only craft items you are at or above the level.
Example. player is levle 2 and can only craft wood tools. Then player reaches level 3 and can craft a furnace. ( crafting items would increase Steves crafting level.) this would require item crafting to take time for it to be affective

I think mossy is too random to base the furnace on, but how about just iron ore?

Edit: Hmm, this won't work since you can't get stone tools before a furnace. Guess it would have to be clay then or sandstone? Or both?

If this seemed too simple to get, perhaps you could add tiers of furnace, so the basic furnace can only smelt one iron chunk per piece of coal, but you could craft a standard functionality one from iron ingots?
Or make the basic furnace only able to smelt cobble to smooth stone (can't get hot enough to smelt iron), and require the standard furnace to be made from smooth stone? This would delineate between stone tools and iron tools better two as there would be a separate furnace required for the different tech levels.

Did anyone play Notch's 2d minecraft (minicraft) that he programmed for Ludlum Dare, all the recipes were made more expensive and the tech tree was harder to progress through, although it meant a lot of the items had no use since he probably ran out of time to implement them. I never figured a use for all the cloth Zombies dropped, and couldn't do much with all the stone gathered while trying to find coal (now a random drop when mining).

I like the general idea of this mod, but not sure on the balance, the workbench seems a little random having to require all 3 log types, but I suppose pine is more common these days, so shouldn't take more than a couple of in game days before you can start building tools.

Everything other than the workbench and furnace seems quite logical though, I like them.

Despite the general dislike of the idea, I'm going to try the mossy furnace recipe anyway, in case it's not as bad as people are imagining, because I honestly can't think of a better one at the moment.

The mod's almost complete, I'll post it on the forums when it's ready!

EDIT: It's getting late, I think I'll wait until tomorrow to finish it up :)

ahh this looks really good, but mossy is kinda hard to find?

ohhh idea...

so you dont progress to easily

make sticks into branches and u need 8 branches to make 1 stick... even out the tool making abit?

edit; DIBS first download!

I agree with BigShinyToys' idea, actually. I think making it out of clay would be a good option. Perhaps not just regular clay, but some addition.

How bout' Clay blocks into furnaces. Just saying the kiln is out of clay so it can definitely concentrate heat.

clay is kinda ludicrously easy to get now. Also, the intention was to actually force the player to MINE before they get access to charcoal, just like the good ol' days.

...So, if anybody can come up with a recipe that involves underground exploration, I'm all ears!