Better Than Wolves Forum

Using the repeater's dimensions:




I'm not sure how well this would go with New Age or whatever, but smaller circuits = more complex machines. The one in this picture is an XNOR gate, as depicted in the 5x3 symbol at the top left. I'm not sure about the feasibility of auto-adjusting input directions, but I wanted to make a gif anyway. To avoid accidentally connecting wires(until bluewire or something surfaces) you'd use the classic repeater method.

To balance mas production, a crafting table with a larger grid could be used to manually make them. For some of the more complex circuits, you could have some that work in pairs, requiring side-by-side placement (3 in a row = up to 6 inputs).

Just as a quick heads up, FC is a redstone purist and a fan of more complicated construction in contraptions, not space reduction. I wouldn't get your hopes up, particularly since RedPower already does exactly this.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/365 ... tone-pipe/

this might be what you're looking for. look at the "redpower logic" section of it, specifically

Oh no, just...no.....

Are they compatible together?

Yes, most mods that use Forge are compatible. You might need to change some blockIDs but that's all. Walker_Boh has made a good tutorial how to install them both (as well as a few other mods): viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1296

There are lots of mods that add Basic logic gates And some that add advanced gates like adders . ( I looked for links but failed sorry ) So the questions is then

Q) Dose it fit BTW ?
A) better than wolves is about adding stuff that notch and mojang should have added . simple things that add a huge amount more playability. and has gone in the direction of mechanical power . so Not really.

Q) Would it be simple to implement ?
A) I think it would not be hard for some one like FC But dont quote me on that.

Q) what new experiences would this add to the game ?
A) None.

Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .


So I think this might be good for some people BUT is not well suited to BTW

[quote="BigShinyToys"]There are lots of mods that add Basic logic gates And some that add advanced gates like adders . ( I looked for links but failed sorry ) So the questions is then
Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .


[\quote]

I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.

It does exist on other mods though, so no need to repeat.

Awfulcopter wrote:I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.

It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.

Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.

I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.

You have to have gameplay elements that warrant these gates for them to be useful. As it stands now in BTW, there's no advanced machinery that requires you to have really tricky redstone. The only one right now is the elevator suffering from its vertical height, which will be fixed when we get the lens.

When I was creating a system that pulls cooked stuff out of a cauldron with BC, for example, I did need that complexity. Using RP I set up a 5x5 system to do it, which would've easily taken a HUGE room (20x20x5 or so). In that use case, you need the small gates. There is no machinery of that complexity yet in BTW.

FlowerChild wrote:It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.

Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.

I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.

What would be your opinion on a vacuum tube like system? Provide a few blocks that act like parts of a gate, so you can create a latch that's smaller than a room, but larger than a single block.

As far as I can tell, pistons and BDs already fulfill large parts of this, so maybe we ought to explore which gates don't have simplified versions yet in BTW.

Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.

Stormweaver wrote:Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.

With the BD update, time for a new thread to show off all the compact gates?

Gilberreke wrote:

Stormweaver wrote:Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.

With the BD update, time for a new thread to show off all the compact gates?

Doesn't sound like a bad idea.

I'll be happy to contribute later on if needbe.

Gilberreke wrote:As far as I can tell, pistons and BDs already fulfill large parts of this, so maybe we ought to explore which gates don't have simplified versions yet in BTW.

Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?

Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.

Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.

The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.

FlowerChild wrote:Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?

Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.

Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.

The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at, it's time to do a full revision of the system to see if there's any holes left that still require huge contraptions for simple gates. I can't think of any of the top of my head.

Gilberreke wrote:

FlowerChild wrote:Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?

Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.

Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.

The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.

Yeah, that was what I was getting at, it's time to do a full revision of the system to see if there's any holes left that still require huge contraptions for simple gates. I can't think of any of the top of my head.

monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.

Stormweaver wrote:monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.

In that case, RS NOR latches too. I seem to remember making really small monostables though, are you sure that's the smallest?

You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.

http://sargunster.com/btwforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=552

Mainly Havok and I explored the BD in traditional gates a few months ago. Maybe someone likes to add new information to this thread.

Urian wrote:You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.

You can make a T flip-flop, I don't see how you can make an RS NOR with BDs.

Gilberreke wrote:

Stormweaver wrote:monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.

In that case, RS NOR latches too. I seem to remember making really small monostables though, are you sure that's the smallest?

well, it can be 2x3 but the input/output are in awkward places most of the time.

Gilberreke wrote:

Urian wrote:You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.

You can make a T flip-flop, I don't see how you can make an RS NOR with BDs.

Right you are, sorry. I haven't played MC for some time now so my memory of circuits is getting a bit rusty.

Personally I favor the idea of having literally integrated redstone, where you still have to make it out of torches and repeaters and such but only much more compact. Something like a black box block that allows you to make a 16x16x16 redstone contraption inside and allows input/output through the faces. This might be unfeasible with the way the code is stuctured though. The entire idea of having different world instances in general could do lots of things; boats, moving mechanisms, integrated redstone etc. Seems useful.

FlowerChild wrote:

Awfulcopter wrote:I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.

It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.

Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.

I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.

That's inconsistent with fine tuning the BD to be a great single block RAM.

Awfulcopter wrote:That's inconsistent with fine tuning the BD to be a great single block RAM.

You're selectively quoting me:

FlowerChild wrote: Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.

Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.

The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.

Integrated redstone circuitry generally offers no such explanation as to the humongous jump in tech-level it represents.