Dwarf Fortress: Noob(ish) observations

[Sarudak]

Surely you wouldn't just abandon the mod. You would at least pass it on to someone else or open source it or something... It can't just die... :(

[Williamson]

I know I mostly just lurk here, but I'd like to add my voice to everyone's support. You've made this mod great, and I'm sure that any game you start will be just as awesome!
I'll definitely follow whatever ou develop!

[FlowerChild]

Surely you wouldn't just abandon the mod. You would at least pass it on to someone else or open source it or something... It can't just die... :(

Nah man. I wouldn't let that happen.

[Sarudak]

Good to hear it. Well I say go for it! If you start your own studio I'll certainly follow whatever comes out of it. I follow all the studios that make games I like and I count this mod among games I like. Leveraging your mod into popularity for your new game is definitely a good decision IMO. It worked for Derek Paxton. He made the Fall from Heaven mod and now he's the lead producer on elemental.

[BinoAl]

Surely you wouldn't just abandon the mod. You would at least pass it on to someone else or open source it or something... It can't just die... :(

Nah man. I wouldn't let that happen.

Honestly, even if you did just let it die, I'd be mostly ok with it. I'd just stick with that minecraft jar forever :D And, I'd have a shiny new game's development to stalk ^.^

[gungad]

Honestly, even if you did just let it die, I'd be mostly ok with it. I'd just stick with that minecraft jar forever :D And, I'd have a shiny new game's development to stalk ^.^

Same feeling here.
Just never update Minecraft again. And start lurking in another place ;)

[Sarudak]

You messed up your quotes a bit there. That was BinoAl that said that :P

[Ethinolicbob]

It worked for Derek Paxton. He made the Fall from Heaven mod and now he's the lead producer on elemental.

Is that were he went?
I was a big fan of that mod.
Thanks Sarudak I am going to look that up.

[Sarudak]

I think you'll like it. It's really shaping up to be an awesome game unlike the original elemental. :P

[kregoth]

How did I miss this topic? lol guess I should show my support and add in some advice :)

First I am glad despite the annoyances (it part of the regular thing with DF at times) That you are enjoying the game, When I first ran across this mod my first thought was there was some inspiration from DF, I was wrong but I still felt some similarities where there. I suggest you give this article a read from NYTimes It will help a bit in understanding how toady works and his odd personality lol. Also DF is entirely Donation based, and although he doesn't make more then an average of $3-4k a month generally but during the month of February he did gain $12k+ this was right after the first 34.01 release. I think Toady is happy just doing what he does and isn't looking to make millions, he just enjoys making Dwarf Fortress and that just what he wants to do.

Now for about going into and creating your own studio and making games, it so much easier due to Crowd Funding now a days. Kick Starter really proves just how people are willing to invest in not only games but ideas :) Kick Stater could be something to think about when you have a game you want to present :) Also for Donations you could try using ChipIn if you don't like paypal :)

I look forward to what you add to your mod with ideas from Dwarf Fortress, Also you should join in on the Fun! on our succession game. Though Horizon needs to get his butt in gear and do his turn :P but I will add you to whatever year you want to take, and you can take how ever long to finish it sense your busy with BTW!

[FlowerChild]

First I am glad despite the annoyances (it part of the regular thing with DF at times) That you are enjoying the game, When I first ran across this mod my first thought was there was some inspiration from DF, I was wrong but I still felt some similarities where there.

Oh yeah man, I can definitely see where that impression was coming from now. I've been struck by it as well, and have put a lot of thought into where those similarities may have originated.

I think it may partly by due to DF serving as one of Notch's inspiration for MC. The thing is, he largely stripped out almost all of the technical and challenge aspects out of his take on the same kind of game (as well as management, but I don't see that as something BTW will touch on, as much as I like it).

I think it fairly natural then that someone would eventually come along and think "you know what this game is missing?" and wind up re-adding some of the aspects that were basically removed from the DF design to create MC. That someone just happened to be me :)

Honestly, I think there are some things that MC definitely does better. Floors in DF for example strike me as an overly convoluted way of handling things. The difference between floors and blocks and how they relate to each other is not really intuitive in DF, creates weird exceptions between how things are done vertically and how they are done horizontally, and I think it's an overly convoluted way of doing things. I think MCs system of just treating everything as blocks is much cleaner.

On the other hand though, I do consider MC to be sorely lacking in threat and challenge (which is something I've brought up many times in the past), and that only seems to be getting worse with time. It's a bit of a spoiler, but one I mentioned briefly on Ren's stream awhile back, that this big April 10th release is actually oriented towards bringing some of that challenge back to MC, and I think my recent experiences with DF definitely acted as a source of motivation to dust off a number of my plans in that regard and get moving on them.

To me, the lack of any real threat in MC interferes with its long term playability, and that's something that me and Toady definitely share in terms of our concepts of "fun" (although him and I may differ in opinion about how much "fun" should be random in nature, and how much should be based on consequence for player action). It's probably the number one problem I still see in MC with BTW installed, which is why I'm choosing to address it. Previously, it was the lack of any really interesting technical content or a tech tree to provide long term play value, but now I think I have that amply covered for the time being and have decided to tackle what I view to be the current big issue in MC's design.

I suggest you give this article a read from NYTimes

That article was actually linked earlier in the thread and served as basis for much of the conversation that occured.

I look forward to what you add to your mod with ideas from Dwarf Fortress, Also you should join in on the Fun! on our succession game. Though Horizon needs to get his butt in gear and do his turn :P but I will add you to whatever year you want to take, and you can take how ever long to finish it sense your busy with BTW!

Honestly, that style of succession isn't really my thing. I'm a big fan of persistence, so turning over control of a fortress after x amount of time just isn't something that appeals to me.

If you ever do one based on reclamation of the fortress after each player does a turn playing until they're wiped-out, or one in which we're all just sharing a world and adding to its history with each fortress, I might be up for that though.

But thanks for largely being the one that motivated me to give DF a go again with that other thread. I'd say that it's actually replaced MC at present as the game I'm playing the most of these days, and that's probably the first time in a year and a half (since I first started playing MC) where a game has done that.

[Itamarcu]

I think I have that amply covered for the time being and have decided to tackle what I view to be the current big issue in MC's design.\

Ooooh!
That sound quite interesting!


I never played DF myself, by the way - I tried it for half an hour, but the UI was so bloddy sifficult I never even built a castle! I could only manage to create a world, name my dwarves and chop a few trees...

[FlowerChild]

I think I have that amply covered for the time being and have decided to tackle what I view to be the current big issue in MC's design.\

Ooooh!
That sound quite interesting!

Yeah, at this point I feel confident saying that this big release represents a bold new direction for the mod. It isn't just a matter of expanding on what's already there.

But that's probably enough spoilers for today ;)

[Sarudak]

Interesting... Sounds like it might add a lot of challenge to the early game. Question though... It's not anything like this mod is it?

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/780 ... gh-do-you/

[FlowerChild]

Interesting... Sounds like it might add a lot of challenge to the early game. Question though... It's not anything like this mod is it?

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/780 ... gh-do-you/

I'm not answering any questions about this man, and I wouldn't make any assumptions based on what I've said.

[Sarudak]

Ok sorry. Well can I ask if you've seen/tried the mod before? It's pretty cool. It adds zombies that scratch through your walls and dig tunnels and pigmen that build bridges and ladders and siege ogres that throw rocks that bust up your wall to try to get to a placeable nexus. But there's also the option to have the mobs spawn at random and will do the same thing to get to you. Certainly adds some challenge! Although probably too extreme for most as it easily screws up your creations.

[kregoth]

-snip-

TBH though I honestly don't consider DF as a game, but an interactive simulation and that what he mostly designs around. Toady enjoys designing mostly on the aspects of adding something that can be simulated which is mostly why DF has such oddities when it comes to representation of it's game play mechanics. pretty much all things Toady adds to DF is just a further experimentation for him in terms of how to simulate a fantasy world lol.

which is why I'm choosing to address it. Previously, it was the lack of any really interesting technical content or a tech tree to provide long term play value, but now I think I have that amply covered for the time being and have decided to tackle what I view to be the current big issue in MC's design.

I agree and I can't wait to see how you tackle the rest :) If you could create Forgotten beasts somehow in MC, that would be one hell of an accomplishment. I remember Notch mentioning sometime ago he wanted to do something like that but sadly it never happened, and it's probably not possible anyhow :(

I look forward to what you add to your mod with ideas from Dwarf Fortress, Also you should join in on the Fun! on our succession game. Though Horizon needs to get his butt in gear and do his turn :P but I will add you to whatever year you want to take, and you can take how ever long to finish it sense your busy with BTW!

Honestly, that style of succession isn't really my thing. I'm a big fan of persistence, so turning over control of a fortress after x amount of time just isn't something that appeals to me.

If you ever do one based on reclamation of the fortress after each player does a turn playing until they're wiped-out, or one in which we're all just sharing a world and adding to its history with each fortress, I might be up for that though.

But thanks for largely being the one that motivated me to give DF a go again with that other thread. I'd say that it's actually replaced MC at present as the game I'm playing the most of these days, and that's probably the first time in a year and a half (since I first started playing MC) where a game has done that.

That could be Fun! I could imagine setting up and embark that is just challenging as hell to keep and seeing how everyone handles trying to survive it :) but for standered succession game there is a topic here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=89305.0) that's all about some of the best succession games.

And your welcome, I have converted many humans into Dwarf hating machines in the past few months not only here, but at http://www.Qubetubers.com as well. Hell SilverDragon streams the damn thing just about everyday now on our Twitch channel. it's a highly addictive Dwarf Simulator, that is once you are willing to trudge through the horrid of learning it all :P

[morvelaira]

But that's probably enough spoilers for today ;)

>.>

<.<

*squee!!*

[FlowerChild]

But that's probably enough spoilers for today ;)

>.>

<.<

*squee!!*

Hehe...I'm excited too. I had some lingering design issues that were harassing me the past few weeks, and I think I just got them all worked out on a long walk I just took.

I still have a lot of work left to go, but I think I have a clear plan in my mind as to how to get there for the 10th.

I think I just came up with a new catch-phrase for this release too:

"Forget everything you knew about Minecraft"

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

"forget everything you knew about minecraft"

I am actually having trouble sleeping at night because of this. I am so super freaking psyched. and to quote morv "squee!"

[Poppycocks]

Ah, FC, you're a horrible tease.

I hate you, I brolove you.

I can't wait for that release. You're still not making me count the days though, I'm too skeptic about the release date for that.

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

Ah, FC, you're a horrible tease.

I hate you, I brolove you.

I can't wait for that release. You're still not making me count the days though, I'm too skeptic about the release date for that.

I am not counting days. I am to busy getting ready to do this

[kregoth]

"Forget everything you knew about Minecraft"

I...ummm...but....your.... grrrrr damn you FlowerChild, it's stuff like this that makes me either really excited for whats to come, or if it some retaliated trolling for my actions of said dwarfing :P

[Stormweaver]

Huh, sounds fun.

I learned long ago that when a feature could well be anything, it probably will be. Trying to guess...yeah. Doesn't work.

[FlowerChild]

I...ummm...but....your.... grrrrr damn you FlowerChild, it's stuff like this that makes me either really excited for whats to come, or if it some retaliated trolling for my actions of said dwarfing :P

Hehe...no, no trolling this time. This represents a dramatic shift in the way both the mod and Minecraft are played. The April 10th release is actually just the beginning of a brand new chapter for the mod. Updates in the weeks and months that come will build off of the base I am establishing now for an overall radical shift in direction that allows me to do things that I previously considered off-limits and beyond the scope of the mod.

Honestly, I think most people would have just decided to create an entirely separate mod at this point, but I've planned out ways to integrate it into what is already there, even if it makes everything else feel like it was just an extended tutorial in preparation for the real game ;)