Dwarf Fortress: Noob(ish) observations

[Sarudak]

Like I said I would like to see that and would happily play and pay for such a game if it existed.

[FlowerChild]

Like I said I would like to see that and would happily play and pay for such a game if it existed.

Yeah, so would I :)

I've been thinking for quite a long time now that I need to get off my ass and start up my own studio. I think the combination of my experience with making the mod, and now playing DF might actually serve as the motivation for me to do so.

I can't count the number of times I've thought while playing it "man, I wish I was in charge of this thing". I guess it's kinda similar to the thought process I went through when I started BTW, but in this case, I wouldn't be starting a mod, or wind up wasting tons of time adjusting and updating to accommodate someone else's code or design changes.

As BTW gets larger, I'm definitely having more and more "why the fuck am I doing this?" moments whenever a version update hits. Working off my own code-base would definitely make me happier in that regard, and would probably eventually compensate for the initial setup "cost".

24 hours just doing 1.2 updates definitely did not sit well with me. That's probably as much time as I spent implementing Pulleys & Platforms or the Mechanical Power system to begin with. In other words, that time represents complex features that could have been in the mod that never will be, and that rather pisses me off.

It's not just hours off my life that I'm lamenting the loss of (although that's significant). It's the loss of features as well, and it was a complete and total waste with no benefit to anyone whatsoever.

[Sarudak]

I would love to see it. I would love to play it. I would even love to work on it. I used to love making games. I started when I was like 10 making complex games mostly just with pieces of paper. I would try to get my grandpa to play them but he would fall asleep as I explained the rules. Lol

Sadly it would probably mean the demise of this mod.

EDIT: That wasn't me saying I wanted to work for your hypothetical game studio. More that I would really want to make a game like this myself if I had the time and resources.

[MoRmEnGiL]

I only have a single piece of advice: If you ever decide to start your own thing, drop the flowerchild name and tell no-one about it. The sheer stupidity and dedication of trolls out there is way too scary to go serious about it while carrying the history of FC related trollings.

In fact, I'm sad to say, not telling even us would probably be a wise move..

As for your DF comments, each developer has his own vision, and not compromising it, not even for profit, is something I commend. Besides, if it motivates you to do the thing you are pondering, hey, thank god for it right?

My encounters with DF have been..problematic to say the least, since I had zero knowledge about it, and rushed in it blind, with no texture packs or that therapist you are talking about. It was too much to handle and have given up many times now, but now it is in desura, along with noob packages.

Do those make enough of a difference for it to be more playable without studying it for hours ahead?

[Sarudak]

That's an interesting dilemma. Because he also has a massive resource to tap here if he wanted to develop interest in the game (which I'm sure he does since he wants to make money from it). But at the same time it would mean giving up his anonymity.

[FlowerChild]

That's an interesting dilemma. Because he also has a massive resource to tap here if he wanted to develop interest in the game (which I'm sure he does since he wants to make money from it). But at the same time it would mean giving up his anonymity.

Yeah, it would, but I think I'm prepared to accept that. I've actually been thinking for awhile that it would make a lot of sense for me to try and leverage the success of the mod in anything new I might startup.

Fuck the trolls man. I am who I am, and it would be only a matter of time before I started pissing people off again under a new name anyways ;)

[FlowerChild]

My encounters with DF have been..problematic to say the least, since I had zero knowledge about it, and rushed in it blind, with no texture packs or that therapist you are talking about. It was too much to handle and have given up many times now, but now it is in desura, along with noob packages.

Do those make enough of a difference for it to be more playable without studying it for hours ahead?

Yes, big time. I had the same experience as you the first time I played DF, and gave up on it after only a few hours. The UI was just too horrible for me to get beyond.

Lazy Noob made the big difference for me in this second go and got me over the hump. Now, as I mentioned above, I'm just manually installing the two parts of it that I find critical, which were a graphic tileset and Dwarf Therapist (which provides an interface for managing dwarves akin to a spreadsheet which goes a long way to making the game playable).

I wouldn't play the game without either of those, and do not consider the game playable without them.

The other thing I did was play the game with two walkthroughs open at the same time. This one:

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/ ... tart_guide

And this one:

http://afteractionreporter.com/dwarf-fo ... tutorials/

I didn't read either before hand, but rather consulted both extensively during the initial hours of play.

You'll of course want to also have the wiki open pretty much at all times while playing. That's what I still do now.

It's still a HELL of a lot to digest to start having fun, but I can now say with confidence that it's well worth it.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Oh boy. I'm sure it is, but I have so much in my mind these days I'm not sure I can handle it..

Thanks a ton for the pointers though, I will give this whole thing a shot when I'm feeling brave :]

One thing I've noticed helps ease me inside a game (that sounded sexual..) is watching a couple of good youtube LPs on it. I had started watching a DF lp last year and I almost managed to hang on to the game. I'll give it a spin this year too. Dear god. Dwarf fortress is like trying to have sex in your 70ties.. Virtually impossible without external aids.

[orangeweaver]

Yeah. I may try again using the Therapist and some of the links you gave but like Mormengil I've been really strapped for time, either working at my job or working on my own shit within ten minutes of getting home. I get a little BTW time here and there and haven't logged into Edolas for a good while now. We'll see what happens I am intrigued by the game.

Also if you did decide to start up a game of some kind in the future you have my full support. I don't care what you have in mind, you have done enough in BTW that I would be ecstatic to see what you come up with and have full control over.

[BinoAl]

I've been thinking for quite a long time now that I need to get off my ass and start up my own studio. I think the combination of my experience with making the mod, and now playing DF might actually serve as the motivation for me to do so.

Just seeing what you did with minecraft is amazing, imagining what you would do with a game you built from the ground up... Oho, I can't even imagine. I get what mormengil was saying about it being wise to not tell anyone about it, but I'd cry if you were working on a game, but I couldn't play it. xD

[morvelaira]

That's an interesting dilemma. Because he also has a massive resource to tap here if he wanted to develop interest in the game (which I'm sure he does since he wants to make money from it). But at the same time it would mean giving up his anonymity.

Yeah, it would, but I think I'm prepared to accept that. I've actually been thinking for awhile that it would make a lot of sense for me to try and leverage the success of the mod in anything new I might startup.

Fuck the trolls man. I am who I am, and it would be only a matter of time before I started pissing people off again under a new name anyways ;)

I offered what business skills I have in the past, and I'll offer them again. All you need to do is ask.

[BinoAl]

I offered what business skills I have in the past, and I'll offer them again. All you need to do is ask.

I'd offer my skills too, once I graduate, but a freshly graduated game programming student would be no use to FC, so I'd just buy such a hypothetical game ^.^

[rhacer]

I've been thinking for quite a long time now that I need to get off my ass and start up my own studio. I think the combination of my experience with making the mod, and now playing DF might actually serve as the motivation for me to do so.

FC, you don't know me and I'm relatively new around the forums here, but I cannot encourage this behaviour enough. I long to be a video game producer (not designer, not programmer, not anything else). However, as you get older life gets in the way and the decisions one makes make it far far more difficult to chase a dream like this.

I have a good life, I have an outstanding gig, I have a great family, but I still on a daily basis look longingly at the realm of gaming and say "what if...?" Now I live by proxy through my oldest son who is pursuing a degree in game design, and annual visits to PAX.

Go for it!

[Horizon]

Why does everyone need DT to play DF? I'm fine without it, so it can't be too complicated.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks for all the support guys! I really appreciate it, especially since I think you all realize what such a move would likely mean for BTW.

I need to consider it more, but I think it all makes a lot of sense. Out of the 15 years I spent in the industry, I probably spent at least the last 5 thinking "man, I just really need to start my own studio". The thing is though, those last few years also killed what I thought was left of my desire to make games.

As I've mentioned before though, the experience of making BTW has made me find that love of making games once again, and gotten me to the point where I'm more and more often thinking about "what's next" once again. I think following Notch, and now Toady has also introduced me to a new way of doing things in terms of indy game-making, and really shown me that it's a viable option for a determined individual.

Anyways, will need to put a lot more time into thinking about it, but I think I'm about ready to start taking this seriously.

Again, thanks for the ongoing support. It's much appreciated, especially when I'm talking about something that concerns me personally, rather than being directly related to the mod (except potentially to the mod's detriment).

I tell you though, if I go that route the many requests for a donation button will likely be fulfilled, as it's going to be a challenge getting by if I do something like this ;)

[Stormweaver]

Well, I think I can speak for all of us winged turtles when I say that we'll be happy to help out however should you make the move; be it just through encouragement or moderating your Better than Dwarf fortress New game's forums or what have you.

I came to like BTW because it had a badass making it; I think the rule'll apply to new stuff too. So long as it's...you know, still a well thought out mod/game/mind control drug etc.

[FlowerChild]

I came to like BTW because it had a badass making it; I think the rule'll apply to new stuff too. So long as it's...you know, still a well thought out mod/game/mind control drug etc.

Nah, I'm sick of carefully considering everything I do. Making a mod I feel obliged to do it, as I don't want to screw up someone else's game, but if I'm making my own thing I figure I can let it slide...especially if my livelihood is dependent on it ;)

And thanks :)

[orangeweaver]

It's always good to think out what you want to do, weigh the possibilities etc. But honestly FC if this has been something you've been thinking about doing for a long time just suite up the pig w/ the gimp suite and go to town. I think we all understand what that would mean for BTW but I would still fully support it and would absolutely be clicking that donation button whenever possible.

I think you put a lot of new life into Minecraft w/ BTW for a lot of us and even pushed the game into places we would have never come up w/. The depth of BTW for a mod is outstanding and I think at any point you need to let it go to pursue your own goals, do it, the mod is a pinnacle of fucking greatness and you should be proud but keep on tackling your other goals for sure.

Edit: I'd like to also point out that after fixing my world (my clumsy modloading save error) I've been working nonstop w/ elevators in my base and fucking love it. So if updating on these small 1.2.2, 1.2.3, etc updates is sucking up your energy and even though we love the updates, elevators kicked major fucking ass and we could all when it comes down to it forgo a few weeks / months of these snapshot updates (that's what they are) for the more meaty servings that you often provide.

[jorgebonafe]

This conversation got me really excited... I have to say even if such a move would have a negative impact on BTW's development, I think that would be a worthy sacrifice... I'd love to see what kind of game you could release having complete autonomy and control over it.

[MoRmEnGiL]

I did not say it, but I believe it goes without saying that whatever you do you have my support.

Even if it means the end of BtW development,a man has the obligation to himself to pursue his dream.

Plus it helps a bit that I would be,you know, very interested in whatever you would be making ;]

[Sarudak]

Thanks for all the support guys! I really appreciate it, especially since I think you all realize what such a move would likely mean for BTW.

I need to consider it more, but I think it all makes a lot of sense. Out of the 15 years I spent in the industry, I probably spent at least the last 5 thinking "man, I just really need to start my own studio". The thing is though, those last few years also killed what I thought was left of my desire to make games.

As I've mentioned before though, the experience of making BTW has made me find that love of making games once again, and gotten me to the point where I'm more and more often thinking about "what's next" once again. I think following Notch, and now Toady has also introduced me to a new way of doing things in terms of indy game-making, and really shown me that it's a viable option for a determined individual.

Anyways, will need to put a lot more time into thinking about it, but I think I'm about ready to start taking this seriously.

Again, thanks for the ongoing support. It's much appreciated, especially when I'm talking about something that concerns me personally, rather than being directly related to the mod (except potentially to the mod's detriment).

I tell you though, if I go that route the many requests for a donation button will likely be fulfilled, as it's going to be a challenge getting by if I do something like this ;)

Kickstarter man! It's the way to go in this day and age.

[rhacer]

Kickstarter man! It's the way to go in this day and age.

Sarudak, I was going to suggest this but it had to wait until our Shadowrun game was over.

Kickstarter is a great thing, but you better have some name recognition or a kick-ass business plan or other top-notch assets to present. (I am an investor in Stepto's fiction project there). For every Tim Shaeffer or Brian Fargo you'll have a Christian Allen.

[morvelaira]

I agree. A well thought out and marketed kickstarter campaign would be a great way to get started. It would probably involve a lot of playing nice, however.

[Ribky]

I'd kickstart that. A lot of my friends from the good old days of art school have used it to fund trips to conventions to show off their stuff, haven't seen even one of them fail to meet their quota yet. If you do it up bossman, you'll have my support.

[DreamsofFury]

As one of the new guys and recent adict of the mod, even I would support anything this great man does.....eh...too much kiss ass....

If ya do make your own game ill buy it hands down...only downside is I might have to look for a new MC mod eventually :P