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Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:27 am
by FlowerChild
The Minecraft wiki is your friend guys.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:03 am
by Wibbles
I noticed a funny thing. I had reached the second night in a new world, and had found a hidey hole some way up a mountain, where I had a pretty good view over the valley below me. I had plonked down a furnace and a crafting table and was sorting out some meat to cook when I heard a BOOM from below; sounded like a creeper had just exploded. I went to see what was going on and saw a creeper crater down in the valley along with a couple of fresh cobwebs, so that really, really puzzled me. I knew there was occasionally mob infighting but it was only because of friendly fire wth steve as the target.
I'm going out on a limb here but I suspect one of the mobs was trying to eat a cow and somehow a creeper got in the way... got pissed, and blew up. Anyone experienced such a thing? Or are mobs fighting over food now?
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:26 am
by Six
Wibbles wrote:I noticed a funny thing. I had reached the second night in a new world, and had found a hidey hole some way up a mountain, where I had a pretty good view over the valley below me. I had plonked down a furnace and a crafting table and was sorting out some meat to cook when I heard a BOOM from below; sounded like a creeper had just exploded. I went to see what was going on and saw a creeper crater down in the valley along with a couple of fresh cobwebs, so that really, really puzzled me. I knew there was occasionally mob infighting but it was only because of friendly fire wth steve as the target.
I'm going out on a limb here but I suspect one of the mobs was trying to eat a cow and somehow a creeper got in the way... got pissed, and blew up. Anyone experienced such a thing? Or are mobs fighting over food now?
Wow, I'd not thought about that interaction. Could also happen with a spider shooting at a chicken and hitting the creeper. With very bad luck, this could lead to a breach in a city wall... I might go make my walls a bit stronger now.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:29 am
by FlowerChild
Emergent gameplay FTW :)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:11 am
by johnt
Okay, so yeah, after I realized you can raise chickens using only hemp seeds, I realized I could settle without wheat for cows, and I'm actually enjoying the slow pace a lot more. I've got a pair of chickens and the beginnings of a hemp farm after a few hours of play. And I'm fairly sure this is the first time I've ever made a hoe before a sword before.
I'm also enjoying how the hunger forces you to terraform more. It really gives the area a lived-in feel.
Now to figure out why my front door keeps disappearing at night :(
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:53 pm
by Mud
johnt wrote:
Now to figure out why my front door keeps disappearing at night :(
Zombies can now break down wooden doors in all difficulty settings if I'm not mistaken.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:11 pm
by FlowerChild
Mud wrote:
Zombies can now break down wooden doors in all difficulty settings if I'm not mistaken.
You are not mistaken :)
I went on a little rant about that in the BTW MCF thread last night if anyone is interested. I'll quote it here to save you having to descend into that festering heap:
FlowerChild wrote:
That's the spirit :)
Honestly, when Mojang first announced zombies breaking doors I thought it was the most brilliant addition to MC in a very long time.
Primarily, I saw it as a way to motivate new players to undertake the daunting task of learning to use redstone by having a practical use for iron doors, pistons, etc.
Then they of course relegated it to only being on hard difficulty so that new players would be unlikely to ever be exposed to it, and never really fully implemented it, leaving workarounds like fence gates and trap-doors in place.
Doors are pretty much redstone 101 (heck...it's how I got started), in that they're the first (and simplest) project you're likely to undertake, and they can easily lead into bigger and better things like players asking "now how do I get my door to toggle open or closed with switches on either side" that will slowly ease them into subjects like logic gates (again...that's exactly what happened with me as a vanilla noob). However, without a practical reason to ever install an iron door, it's lacking an initial strong incentive to take the plunge, and zombies are a great potential cure to that problem.
This was Mojang's opportunity to turn redstone into an actual aspect of gameplay rather than just a toy for the technically inclined to play around with, and they basically blew it.
So yeah...potential brilliance turned into total washout, which is usually the trumpet sounding for me to step in and do something about it ;)
So yes, as you can probably ascertain from the above, don't assume that fence gates and trap doors will remain viable alternatives to avoid this happening for much longer ;)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:49 pm
by MoRmEnGiL
Heh, XOR gating my fort's gates was my first redstone project too. :]
I don't think mojang has a focused view on minecraft, ie how this affects new players, how that impacts early game, etc.
They seem to more or less view it as a throwing new toys in the sandbox and letting people sort things out, and I'm not really sure it's something I dislike tbh. I like the idea of an open sandboxy vanilla game, and mods acting as more focused or "flavoured" versions. And let's face it, I don't really care personally if it is fun or whatnot for other people or newcomers, that's not my problem, it's theirs. I'll never be another person or a newcomer after all :P
What does get to me is how wasteful their way of developing vmc seems to be, like having a heck of a plot to build, so building whatever wherever, or having an entire wall to write, so you write haphazardly all over the place wasting space.
That's where btw comes in and makes things tight and focused, and I'm fine with that to the extent that the mod's author is not dragged down as a result of vmc design decisions. (whoops.)
And why the hell am I ranting on a spoiler thread. Sorry :/
EDIT: oh, btw, there is a certain thing you can do with doors to make them unbreakable I think. Placing them on the side so they block the doorway when they are actually open or something, which makes the zombies unable to break them.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 pm
by MaxAstro
Yeah, I can confirm that last exploit. Zombies can only attack closed doors, so if you place the door on the wall so that it blocks the doorway when "open", you are zombie-proof.
I've known about it for a while but never used it, because that is lame.
Ironically, I ~didn't~ know that zombies breaking doors was hard-only, and so I've been playing the game this whole time thinking that was something I had to worry about... and FC is right, building complex doors was definitely a gateway drug (haha pun) into redstone circuits for me.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:59 pm
by Six
FlowerChild wrote:
So yes, as you can probably ascertain from the above, don't assume that fence gates and trap doors will remain viable alternatives to avoid this happening for much longer ;)
The zombies breaking doors thing always annoyed me, because rather than adding to interesting building design and gameplay, it just made people not use doors. Glad to hear you're on it.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:18 pm
by FlowerChild
Six wrote:
The zombies breaking doors thing always annoyed me, because rather than adding to interesting building design and gameplay, it just made people not use doors. Glad to hear you're on it.
Oh yeah, I'm definitely on that shit man. You'll notice with a lot of my features, I lay the groundwork for something to come first to make it a part of gameplay, then fully develop it in a release that follows down the road.
Previously, zombies breaking doors wasn't a fully integrated aspect of gameplay because it was relegated only to hard difficulty. My removing that restriction is basically me saying "I've accepted this as part of gameplay and will now be working towards fully integrating it". Mojang restricting it to only hard was basically the exact opposite and virtually guaranteed that feature would never be developed further.
It's similar to some of my early villager changes like setting a breeding item for them and putting abandoned villages in. I'm establishing the baseline rules for them in preparation for additional work.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:37 pm
by savagelung
I wanted to share a story about something that just happened -- I don't think it contains any spoilers, I'm posting here just to be safe.
Apparently, during the night, a sneaky creeper hopped into my nether portal. I didn't realize this until I popped into the nether and heard that awful hiss. That marks my third death, all in the nether :(
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:13 pm
by OldMarriedDude
savagelung wrote:I wanted to share a story about something that just happened -- I don't think it contains any spoilers, I'm posting here just to be safe.
Apparently, during the night, a sneaky creeper hopped into my nether portal. I didn't realize this until I popped into the nether and heard that awful hiss. That marks my third death, all in the nether :(
I have had this happen before, its how i figured out mobs can go through the portal. After that Ive either built my portals on a pedestal with retracting stairs or put doors in front of it - now they will have to be iron I suppose.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:17 pm
by Bevanz
savagelung wrote:I wanted to share a story about something that just happened -- I don't think it contains any spoilers, I'm posting here just to be safe.
Apparently, during the night, a sneaky creeper hopped into my nether portal. I didn't realize this until I popped into the nether and heard that awful hiss. That marks my third death, all in the nether :(
Yeah, I learned fairly quickly to build my nether portals with a way to prevent mobs from getting through because of those pesky creepers.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:18 pm
by MoRmEnGiL
Well, there is a feature suggestion I had in my mind for quite a while now involving hibachis and turning portals on and off with redstone. Never made it because eh, it's so minor a thing.
Getting creepered on the nether though would make me lose it. As in, holy crusade to rid the land of everything green and armless. Which is a bit more complicated with HC torches of course.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:21 pm
by Kazuya Mishima
Related to Portals I use a BD to remove one of the blocks closing the gate. It also forces me to remember to bring flint and steel when i go through the next time.
Another spider story:
I was working around my mob trap and i kept hearing a spider. I thought it was jammed in one of the spawn pads but it was actually outside of the mob trap itself and focusing intently on my feather generator. The chickens are locked up behind half-slabs or full stone brick and all are standing on hoppers. Despite this the spider sensed them. This has me wondering if spiders might stall in your mob traps if you have chickens too close?
I will be removing the spider generating capacity of my mob trap soon as i never intended it to have it in the first place but it's something I wonder if you guys have observed?
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm
by chaoticneutral
Defense concerns: guys, the creeper will only explode in those mob fights in one circumstance - when there is a spider, a chicken and a creeper aligned. So, as long as you're sure the area doesn't spawn chickens, you don't need to make triple walls or things like that.
BobSlingblade679 wrote:Which just gave me an idea to make a pig/cow farm using a zombie as the killing mechanism. Haha
The idea is fun enough to try, but nowhere practical: the zombie will eat all the meat.
And you'll need to renew the zombie as soon as you get far too far from it.
Kazuya Mishima wrote:This has me wondering if spiders might stall in your mob traps if you have chickens too close?
Spiders "see" through blocks. This is vanilla behavior.
The difference, now, is only their target.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:37 pm
by FlowerChild
Isn't there that extraneous great balls of fire type feature in vanilla as well that you can use to automatically power up a portal?
I've never bothered with it myself, but I know I had a "well, I guess that's taken care of" reaction when it was included in the game.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:37 pm
by JakeZKAM
This does however lead to easier ways to sort mobs in traps. Spiders go for chickens, zombies go for anything, creepers run from cats, and skellies will just stand there. similar to how Etho made his recent mob sorting system, yet this one can handle spiders :)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:38 pm
by FlowerChild
JakeZKAM wrote:zombies go for anything
Not true :)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:39 pm
by JakeZKAM
Shiiiittt time to test...
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:41 pm
by chaoticneutral
FlowerChild wrote:Isn't there that extraneous balls for fire type feature in vanilla as well that you can use to automatically power up a portal?
I've never bothered with it myself, but I know I had a "well, I guess that's taken care of" reaction when it was included in the game.
Yep, you craft them with [char]coal, blaze powder and gunpowder, or something like that.
Uses are restricted as one-time flint-and-steel and for a somewhat expensive but pretty defense.
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:45 pm
by JakeZKAM
Ah now I see, spiders and zombies wont compete for food then ;)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:47 pm
by FlowerChild
Eh...yeah, that is a pain in the ass. Maybe I could do something with Hibachis and Bellows blowing the flames in the direction of the portal or something. I never really liked the idea of the Hibachi just doing it auto-magically on its own.
Actually...that kind of spread mechanic for Hibachi and Bellows might be kinda cool in a general sense as well. Will think on it :)
Re: 4.65 Spoiler Discussion
Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:47 pm
by FlowerChild
JakeZKAM wrote:Ah now I see, spiders and zombies wont compete for food then ;)
Well, the general idea behind it is that MC zombies have a taste for non-carnivorous or omnivorous mammals (not just humans), but yeah, basically the same thing :)