FlowerChild's Dev Diary (week of September 24th)

[LJEKadeshi]

Although I do agree with the views overall expressed in this thread, the biggest issue I have with the said removal of f3 is that fixing nether portals to eject you at a certain place will become a massive pull on resources in order to calculate it or we may just end up having the 'tard portals that all lead to your home portal.

[muggsbud]

Implying you can use precision when opening nether portals from the other side.

EDIT: grammar

[Six]

OTOH there would be a serious risk of carrying such a map around in anarchy... ;)

I've been carrying a map around with me in anarchy, I just made sure to craft it a distance away from my actual base ;P

Also of relevance to this discussion is the fact that vanilla maps are getting a bit of an overhaul next update. Summary of changes:

Spoiler

Show

• Crafting a map makes an empty map item.
• Using an empty map will turn it into a usable map, centering it on the nearest middle of 8 chunk by 8 chunk areas.
• At first, a map will be scaled so that 1 pixel = 1 block, and surrounding a map with 8 paper will zoom it out and double this scale.
• You can keep doubling this for 5 scales of maps, the smallest showing 128x128 blocks and the largest 2048x2048 (current maps are 1024x1024).
• Crafting an empty map with an existing map will clone it.
• When a player is off the map, a white circle will be shown at the edge of a map in the direction the player is in.
• Finally, maps will be placeable in item frames, with a green arrow for where they are located, so you can view them on walls.

And on removing F3, I love the idea of removing that super power and instead adding (or encouraging existing) in game ways to achieve the same things it was used for. I know I've used it for light levels in the past, but always felt kind of lame about doing so.

[FlowerChild]

Let's get back on track with the rule regarding no criticizing of unreleased features guys. This is getting out of control.

Rest assured that if there are legitimate things that you can't do in-game without co-ordinates, I'll find solutions to that through new features...and they will be cool. You already got a taste of that with the Ender Spectacles last night.

As long as this thing is in the game, there's no reason to develop those features and we'll be perpetually stuck with an immersion-breaking GPS display.

[Battlecat]

Let's get back on track with the rule regarding no criticizing of unreleased features guys. This is getting out of control.

Rest assured that if there are legitimate things that you can't do in-game without co-ordinates, I'll find solutions to that through new features...and they will be cool. You already got a taste of that with the Ender Spectacles last night.

As long as this thing is in the game, there's no reason to develop those features and we'll be perpetually stuck with an immersion-breaking GPS display.

My apologies for mentioning it, I didn't mean it as a criticism in the slightest, just an offhanded mention. Honestly, it's really just a case of using a tool that shouldn't be there (F3) to work around an unreliable vanilla feature (portals).

I look forward to seeing what other features you are simmering in anticipation of the demise of F3!

[OldMarriedDude]

OK, I didnt know about F3- so no great loss to me. my question is will removing F3 break Ries mini map?

EDIT: Never mind took it out- along with TMI- started new world so that it is "untainted"

[FlowerChild]

OK, I didnt know about F3- so no great loss to me. my question is will removing F3 break Ries mini map?

EDIT: Never mind took it out- along with TMI- started new world so that it is "untainted"

I like you already man :)

Yeah, I don't have any specific plans with regards to compatibility with mini-map mods, but I do personally consider them to be cheating. I was actually wondering if last night's release might conflict with them as I am now modifying MC's gui for the Ender Spectacles.

[Ethazeriel]

Yeah, I don't have any specific plans with regards to compatibility with mini-map mods, but I do personally consider them to be cheating. I was actually wondering if last night's release might conflict with them as I am now modifying MC's gui for the Ender Spectacles.

I can confirm that they conflict. I've meant to remove the minimap for awhile, and this finally gave me the kick in the pants required to get me to remove it from my jar file, and I have to say I don't miss it.

[SterlingRed]

Yeah, I don't have any specific plans with regards to compatibility with mini-map mods, but I do personally consider them to be cheating. I was actually wondering if last night's release might conflict with them as I am now modifying MC's gui for the Ender Spectacles.

I can confirm that they conflict. I've meant to remove the minimap for awhile, and this finally gave me the kick in the pants required to get me to remove it from my jar file, and I have to say I don't miss it.

Oh yay! I'm very glad btw now conflicts with minimaps!
Also, I'm very excited about the removal of spawnpoint setting via beds and about removing f3. I think they're both a detriment to gameplay. So much though that I don't use beds in my own worlds at all, not even on an anarchy server. I do use f3, but more so because its there, why would i create maps every 256 blocks or place markers everywhere when i can just hit f3? I am a fan of removing it to save me from myself :)

[Battosay]

Let's get back on track with the rule regarding no criticizing of unreleased features guys. This is getting out of control.

Rest assured that if there are legitimate things that you can't do in-game without co-ordinates, I'll find solutions to that through new features...and they will be cool. You already got a taste of that with the Ender Spectacles last night.

While my first reaction was "Shit, nooo !", it's only because I'm so used to it. Everything you said about it was true (though I know how to go from spawn to my base looking at the sun or the moon, I wandered around long enough to know exactly how things look between both points ^^). I'm reassured with what you just said, I'm sure you'll find cool ways to provide the same functionality.
So let's find out why I was using f3 :
- For building, make sure yo have the good scale, you're in the right place. It was faster to use the coordinates rather than count, or place blocks to count.
- Also for building, but for the Y coordinate. Good way to make sure you're building your elevator shaft right above your mine, or what-have-you.
- Know where you are. Obvious :p Maps will be really useful now.
- For nether portal maths. 'nough said :)
- For the Entity count, for performance issue. Make sure I don't have any problem somewhere with a farm or a factory, with villagers or items.
- For performance again, I like to look at the "camembert" (no idea what it's called :p). The thing that let's you know which part of the game is using what % or ressource. I use that to know when I have too many redstone updates at a time, or too much entities, or to tell if a clock accidentally formed.
- For the biomes. Sometimes it's hard to tell, between biome borders mostly.
- To know the chunk borders, to avoid any potential issues with unloaded area freezing your redstone.
- For the light level. Not a problem anymore ;)

And I think that's it for me :)

[FlowerChild]

Don't worry man, the strictly technical non-cheaty info will be left alone. So stuff like frame-rate, the performance pie-chart, and other bits will be left in.

I'll just be removing the stuff that provides the player with in-game information they should have access to like position, height, current chunk type, etc. I'll be going through every piece of info one at a time and making a call on whether it serves a purely technical use, or an in-game one, and chopping it if it's the latter.

Basically, if you're trying to resolve a technical issue, tweak your performance, or what have you, there's nothing wrong with using this kind of display. If you're opening it for in-game use, like in finding your way home, then that's bad, mkay? :)

[Battosay]

[img]vhttp://karenjlloyd.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/mkay-song-300x174.jpg[/img]
Perfect :)

[Stormweaver]

- For nether portal maths. 'nough said :)
- To know the chunk borders, to avoid any potential issues with unloaded area freezing your redstone.

These are the main two reasons I ever use F3 - though the chunk boundary thing is more often than not for marking out where a given base ends.

Can't say I'm sad to see it go - moving the relevant info into ingame items and stuff is far better a prospect than increasingly invasive text.

[htothetml]

If I were to give my one cent (don't think I have been around long enough to have two). I would love it if you were able to remove the need for F3 for finding your coordinates and such much like you did with the ender spectacles, having an actual item that provides similar functionality to it will definitely make the game appear more seamless. And I can not wait to see what you have in store for beds.
*Zips Gimp Suit*

[blithen]

This gonna be called the "Hardcore F3" update? :P

[PatriotBob]

--SNIP--
Actually, there was an idea proposed a long time ago, that I really liked and said I would implement.

It involves just placing stakes in the ground and using string to mark straight-lines and measure distance, much like I believe was used in historical construction. I've been planning on doing it ever since, but couldn't justify the blockID usage when the player could just use F3.
--SNIP--

If you provided this... it would be amazing.

Although to be honest I don't know why it should surprise me considering your recent updates.

Completely unrelated question: What gamma-irradiated cereal do you eat in the morning FlowerChild?

[OldMarriedDude]

I like you already man :)

THanks ;) My kid is kinda pissed He says Old people intentionally make things harder than they need to be and now he cant play MC on my pc but has to use his own...Awww poor baby...lol

[FlowerChild]

THanks ;) My kid is kinda pissed He says Old people intentionally make things harder than they need to be and now he cant play MC on my pc but has to use his own...Awww poor baby...lol

Lol...yeah, I definitely design for an older audience. However, you might want to consider a "eat your spinach...it's good for you" approach and wipe TMI off his system as well.

From experience I know that it isn't that kids don't appreciate challenge in games, it's that they haven't developed the self-control necessary to preserve their own fun through not taking the easy route. If they have no other alternative, they will of course take the more challenging one, and will likely have a better time in the process (this is one of the reasons I'm so down on compatibility to begin with).

Alternatively, you could always just mock him because his old man is better at Minecraft than he is, and doesn't have to cheat ;)

[FlowerChild]

- To know the chunk borders, to avoid any potential issues with unloaded area freezing your redstone.

Ok...I admit that's a fair point. Avoiding what are basically bugs is an entirely fair meta-game use.

I've been thinking that over, and I'll tell you what I'll do: I'll leave x and y co-ordinates in, but they'll only ever read 0 to 15 to give your location within the current chunk.

For the above use, I suspect that will only make it easier as you won't have to divide everything by 16 to figure it out, whereas it renders the coordinates pretty much useless for any form of navigation.

[morvelaira]

- To know the chunk borders, to avoid any potential issues with unloaded area freezing your redstone.

Ok...I admit that's a fair point. Avoiding what are basically bugs is an entirely fair meta-game use.

I've been thinking that over, and I'll tell you what I'll do: I'll leave x and y co-ordinates in, but they'll only ever read 0 to 15 to give your location within the current chunk.

For the above use, I suspect that will only make it easier as you won't have to divide everything by 16 to figure it out, whereas it renders the coordinates pretty much useless for any form of navigation.

Massive +1

[Sarudak]

Lol...yeah, I definitely design for an older audience.

You know I never really thought I'd hear myself referred to as an 'older audience'... :P

[walker_boh_65]

I've been thinking that over, and I'll tell you what I'll do: I'll leave x and y co-ordinates in, but they'll only ever read 0 to 15 to give your location within the current chunk.

For the above use, I suspect that will only make it easier as you won't have to divide everything by 16 to figure it out, whereas it renders the coordinates pretty much useless for any form of navigation.

This! This is amazing!

[kazerima]

Of course, even though F3 is being removed modified, you can always count your coordinates the hard way ;D
One step... two step...

[OldMarriedDude]

Lol...yeah, I definitely design for an older audience. However, you might want to consider a "eat your spinach...it's good for you" approach and wipe TMI off his system as well.

Alternatively, you could always just mock him because his old man is better at Minecraft than he is, and doesn't have to cheat ;)

He is home schooled and I ride him pretty hard about his grades so I dont give him a hard time about wimping out in a game


He already knows Im better than he is...lol I had to teach him how to redstone doors and sticky pistons. Mostly all he wants to do is blow stuff up

[PatriotBob]

Why do I suddenly imagine having spectacles with like 20 different lenses. Ones for *insert Ender Spectacles use here*, finding chunk boundaries, and a slew of other useful features while stripping out all the unnecessary meta-game nonsense.

Someday, if we're very good boys and girls (not likely), maybe FC will make the compass actually point north.