[SPOILERS] 3.80 feature discovery thread

[ExpHP]

Consistent with the notion of Arcane Scrolls representing acquired knowledge, the Scrolls do not burn in stoked Crucibles, making them safe for however you sort your mob farm items.

Good thing, too, because I probably would have let it burn just hoping for an easter egg.


I haven't seen much discussion about SFS blocks. Has anybody found anything yet besides a refreshing slurp? I really wonder if that's the feature, or if it signifies something else...

[GeckoDragon]

Has anyone else found it odd that the steel helmet got a boost to the respiration and aqua affinity enchantments, yet no one has found the arcane scrolls relating to them?

[ExpHP]

Has anyone else found it odd that the steel helmet got a boost to the respiration and aqua affinity enchantments, but no one has found the arcane scrolls relating to them?

The Squid's arcane scroll remains yet to be seen, and legit Squid farms are nearly-impossible beasts to create. If the Squid does indeed have one of these, I imagine it'll be a while before we find it.

[Poppycocks]

<WildSpeculation>
Enchanting Arcane Scrolls in the infernal enchanter to get new ones?
</WildSpeculation>

Other than that, good job everyone.

The Squid's arcane scroll remains yet to be seen, and legit Squid farms are nearly-impossible beasts to create. If the Squid does indeed have one of these, I imagine it'll be a while before we find it.

Challenge Accepted.

No dice, how do you get the freaking things to spawn? They don't seem to be interested in 2x2x4 pools no matter how far the nearest patch of water is. AFAIK all they need is a 2x2 patch of water at level 60, right?

[Heilkaiba]

Squid can in theory spawn in one block of water 44<y<63. However if there are more than 5 squid in a 17x17 chunk area none will spawn. The limit can be exceeded by large numbers spawning in the same cycle. A pack of up to 4 mobs will spawn in each chunk. I think Squid's spawn cycles are separate from other passive mobs and hostile mobs so they don't have to be taken into account. Also the average life span of a squid when not within 32 block of the player is 40 seconds. All in all they're not particularly conducive to farming.

[SterlingRed]

I built a small trap near my base for squid. I can't control spawning but it will work slowly as I work on other projects nearby so I'm hoping to get lucky.

[Rianaru]

Either a bug or an interesting feature:

Even though it has 4 candles on it, the Infernal Enchanter does not emit light.

Keep in mind that it was just implemented, and that emitting light would be a largely aesthetic feature. however, I am curious as to what implications it would have for the thing if it did give off light.

Has anyone checked if light level affects the IE? definitely a longshot but maybe worth trying. I would do it myself but I havn't been able to play since the release :(

[Elevatator]

Oh, and just to add a bit of background to the above (it may also clear up a few other things), the system at present is meant to be an abstraction of the player learning from slaughtering a huge number of a particular creature type and sorting through their remains. It represents you learning what makes a creature tick, and thus being able to use some of its power.

Thus, in addition to acting counter to some of the design-goals of this system (i.e. encouraging mob farms), looting really wouldn't make sense to apply to that process. The scrolls may act like physical items (you can think of them as the player's notes on the creature), but that's not really what they're all about.

It does not make sense that it drops paper from nowhere.
It should be specific arcane orbs, with enchantments in it, that we can craft with paper into the scrolls. Because even an unholy thing like steve has to write things down.

[Itamarcu]

Oh, and just to add a bit of background to the above (it may also clear up a few other things), the system at present is meant to be an abstraction of the player learning from slaughtering a huge number of a particular creature type and sorting through their remains. It represents you learning what makes a creature tick, and thus being able to use some of its power.

Thus, in addition to acting counter to some of the design-goals of this system (i.e. encouraging mob farms), looting really wouldn't make sense to apply to that process. The scrolls may act like physical items (you can think of them as the player's notes on the creature), but that's not really what they're all about.

It does not make sense that it drops paper from nowhere.
It should be specific arcane orbs, with enchantments in it, that we can craft with paper into the scrolls. Because even an unholy thing like steve has to write things down.

Umm, FlowerChild just said the scrolls aren't paper. They aren't a physical object, they are knowledge.
Adding a process of "writing down" really isn't necessary. Plus, you can assume that, among the ability to carry thousands of tons of materials, the ability to come back to life, and the ability to break through a 1-meter thick log, Steve also has the ability to remember stuff.

[Itamarcu]

I think the scroll drop rates vary from one mob to another. I already got 2 scrolls of Smite from a mob trap with 1 zombie spawner, 1 skeleton spawner and 2 cave spider spawners. Assuming drop rates are the same, getting 2 scrolls from zombies (and no others) in this situation is quite unlikely.

[FlowerChild]

I think the scroll drop rates vary from one mob to another. I already got 2 scrolls of Smite from a mob trap with 1 zombie spawner, 1 skeleton spawner and 2 cave spider spawners. Assuming drop rates are the same, getting 2 scrolls from zombies (and no others) in this situation is quite unlikely.

2 of the same kind is just as likely as any other combination of scrolls.

You're basing a statistical sample on a single occurrence man. It's like playing poker and saying that the game must be fixed because you're dealt a pair on the first hand.

[Itamarcu]

I think the scroll drop rates vary from one mob to another. I already got 2 scrolls of Smite from a mob trap with 1 zombie spawner, 1 skeleton spawner and 2 cave spider spawners. Assuming drop rates are the same, getting 2 scrolls from zombies (and no others) in this situation is quite unlikely.

2 of the same kind is just as likely as any other combination of scrolls.

You're basing a statistical sample on a single occurrence man. It's like playing poker and saying that the game must be fixed because you're dealt a pair on the first hand.

Well, it's still not what you'd expect when the spiders outnumber zombies 2 to 1, especially not when Smite is the only one I got from this trap.
But yeah, I just posted it because it looked suspicious :)

[FlowerChild]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%. Let's say you're expecting half of those results as "normal", with 2 spider scrolls in a row from either of those spawners, which means the odd result you're talking about, with 2 zombies or 2 skeletons in a row, would occur 12.5% of the time. That means more than 1 out of 10 people will experience this the first time they obtain scrolls in such a situation, with of course the ones that get the "pair" being more likely to post here about it, because there's really nothing to comment on otherwise.

That's hardly weird.

If you get say 100 scrolls and notice that it's distinctly weighted towards 1 group or the other AND you're absolutely certain that your mob-trap is processing each of the mob-types at the same rate (which might be unlikely since spiders tend to climb walls within traps and such), then it might be considered a bit strange.

[CycloneSP]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

I've had similar experience while enchanting. If you enchant an item with lvl 11 or so, the odds of you getting 2 enchements are roughly 25% and yet I managed to get double enchantments on stuff 2 or 3 times in a row.

So what I believe FC is trying to tell you is just because something is improbable doesn't mean it's impossible.

[Rianaru]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

*puts on horn-rimmed glasses*
Actually, when talking about consecutive events(usually using a probability tree) wouldn't you multiply the two events? So getting two of the same scroll in a row would be .25^2 which is .0625 relative to any other combination of scrolls. Of course, talking about an individual item dropping, FC is right, it would be 25%. And FC is right either way, since 6.25% for the specific combination isn't strange anyways. And even if 200 identical scrolls dropped in a row, the game engine doesn't take into account previous drops so it would still be correct and follows the rules as FC intended. In statistics, this is called the gamblers fallacy. No matter how many outcomes of whatever type have happened in the past, they do not affect random events in the present or future.

tl;dr
FC is right, and I'm a huge nerd and had to point out some technicalities. (and bio majors have to take millions of statistics classes TT.TT)

[Sarudak]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

*puts on horn-rimmed glasses*
Actually, when talking about consecutive events(usually using a probability tree) wouldn't you multiply the two events? So getting two of the same scroll in a row would be .25^2 which is .0625 relative to any other combination of scrolls. Of course, talking about an individual item dropping, FC is right, it would be 25%. And FC is right either way, since 6.25% for the specific combination isn't strange anyways. And even if 200 identical scrolls dropped in a row, the game engine doesn't take into account previous drops so it would still be correct and follows the rules as FC intended. In statistics, this is called the gamblers fallacy. No matter how many outcomes of whatever type have happened in the past, they do not affect random events in the present or future.

tl;dr
FC is right, and I'm a huge nerd and had to point out some technicalities. (and bio majors have to take millions of statistics classes TT.TT)

Actually your technicalities are wrong and fc is absolutely correct. He was talking about the chance of two consecutive scrolls of any type dropping not for the one specific type mentioned.

More importantly he said 2 spider meaning that mobs can drop more than one kind of scroll. (!)

[FlowerChild]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

*puts on horn-rimmed glasses*
Actually, when talking about consecutive events(usually using a probability tree) wouldn't you multiply the two events? So getting two of the same scroll in a row would be .25^2 which is .0625 relative to any other combination of scrolls. Of course, talking about an individual item dropping, FC is right, it would be 25%. And FC is right either way, since 6.25% for the specific combination isn't strange anyways. And even if 200 identical scrolls dropped in a row, the game engine doesn't take into account previous drops so it would still be correct and follows the rules as FC intended. In statistics, this is called the gamblers fallacy. No matter how many outcomes of whatever type have happened in the past, they do not affect random events in the present or future.

tl;dr
FC is right, and I'm a huge nerd and had to point out some technicalities. (and bio majors have to take millions of statistics classes TT.TT)

You'd also only square it if you were looking for 2 consecutive identical events. Yes, the chances of 2 zombie scrolls dropping in a row are 1/16. If any two scrolls of the same type would cause the same reaction though, the odds get higher. 1/4 if you're dealing with 4 separate spawner types, with it getting a little odd here because of the 2 spawners of the same kind (which I mention in my edit above), both of those spawners generating the "expected" result of getting a pair of spiders.

Ignorning the double-spider though, and looked at in yet another way, you're dealing with 2 digits in a base-4 number, which has 16 possible outcomes, 4 of which have the same digits. In this case, 2 of those 4 results are "expected" (2 spiders in a row), and wouldn't have been worth posting about. 2 of them represent the "strange" scenario commented on, either 2 zombies, or 2 skeletons, for 1 out of 8, or 12.5%.

But really, it comes down to the same thing you're saying above, just looked at from a different perspective.

[FlowerChild]

More importantly he said 2 spider meaning that mobs can drop more than one kind of scroll. (!)

No, I was just referring to the 2 spider spawners in the trap in the example mentioned. Spiders only have one type of scroll drop.

[Sarudak]

Oh... Well in that case you're both incorrect about the statistics and the odds of getting 2 consecutive of any type is 37.5% skewed heavily toward the spider drop (assuming all other things being equal).

(.5 * .5) + (.25 * .25) + (.25 * .25) = .375

But who's counting... *whistles*

[Heilkaiba]

Actually your technicalities are wrong and fc is absolutely correct. He was talking about the chance of two consecutive scrolls of any type dropping not for the one specific type mentioned.
More importantly he said 2 spider meaning that mobs can drop more than one kind of scroll. (!)

The two spider scrolls refers to the two spider spawners compared to one zombie and one skeleton. The probability he was referring to is simply the probability of a second scroll being a smite scroll from a zombie. (The probability of two identical consecutive scrolls of any type is actually 3/8 or 37.5%)
Edit: Double ninja *sigh*

[Rianaru]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

*puts on horn-rimmed glasses*
Actually, when talking about consecutive events(usually using a probability tree) wouldn't you multiply the two events? So getting two of the same scroll in a row would be .25^2 which is .0625 relative to any other combination of scrolls. Of course, talking about an individual item dropping, FC is right, it would be 25%. And FC is right either way, since 6.25% for the specific combination isn't strange anyways. And even if 200 identical scrolls dropped in a row, the game engine doesn't take into account previous drops so it would still be correct and follows the rules as FC intended. In statistics, this is called the gamblers fallacy. No matter how many outcomes of whatever type have happened in the past, they do not affect random events in the present or future.

tl;dr
FC is right, and I'm a huge nerd and had to point out some technicalities. (and bio majors have to take millions of statistics classes TT.TT)

Actually your technicalities are wrong and fc is absolutely correct. He was talking about the chance of two consecutive scrolls of any type dropping not for the one specific type mentioned.

More importantly he said 2 spider meaning that mobs can drop more than one kind of scroll. (!)

I was referring to any consecutive identical scrolls(any scroll would do, except for spiders, because there are two spawners(ninja'd while typing)) so miscommunication? I was also saying that FC was right, so not sure where you got the idea that I was saying he's wrong.
And he may have been referring to the fact that there were two cave spider spawners, meaning double the chance of dropping a scroll as opposed to one each of zombie and skeleton spawners.
EDIT: triple ninja'd. I hate having to use a phone for this -.-

[FlowerChild]

Oh... Well in that case you're both incorrect about the statistics and the odds of getting 2 consecutive of any type is 37.5% skewed heavily toward the spider drop (assuming all other things being equal).

(.5 * .5) + (.25 * .25) + (.25 * .25) = .375

But who's counting... *whistles*

You're ignoring all the conditions I mentioned above in saying that. I was quite specific about it. The spiders are really irrelevant to the conversation, as they never would have been posted about.

[Sarudak]

Oh... Well in that case you're both incorrect about the statistics and the odds of getting 2 consecutive of any type is 37.5% skewed heavily toward the spider drop (assuming all other things being equal).

(.5 * .5) + (.25 * .25) + (.25 * .25) = .375

But who's counting... *whistles*

You're ignoring all the conditions I mentioned above in saying that. I was quite specific about it.

Oh... *facepalm* I missed that middle post and was referring to your initial calculation. You're absolutely right. :)

[Rianaru]

Assuming an even distribution, there are 4 possibilities: 1 zombie, 1 skeleton, 2 spider.

The chances of the 2nd scroll being the same as the first is 1 in 4, or 25%.

That's hardly weird.

*puts on horn-rimmed glasses*
Actually, when talking about consecutive events(usually using a probability tree) wouldn't you multiply the two events? So getting two of the same scroll in a row would be .25^2 which is .0625 relative to any other combination of scrolls. Of course, talking about an individual item dropping, FC is right, it would be 25%. And FC is right either way, since 6.25% for the specific combination isn't strange anyways. And even if 200 identical scrolls dropped in a row, the game engine doesn't take into account previous drops so it would still be correct and follows the rules as FC intended. In statistics, this is called the gamblers fallacy. No matter how many outcomes of whatever type have happened in the past, they do not affect random events in the present or future.

tl;dr
FC is right, and I'm a huge nerd and had to point out some technicalities. (and bio majors have to take millions of statistics classes TT.TT)

You'd also only square it if you were looking for 2 consecutive identical events. Yes, the chances of 2 zombie scrolls dropping in a row are 1/16. If any two scrolls of the same type would cause the same reaction though, the odds get higher. 1/4 if you're dealing with 4 separate spawner types, with it getting a little odd here because of the 2 spawners of the same kind (which I mention in my edit above), both of those spawners generating the "expected" result of getting a pair of spiders.

Ignorning the double-spider though, and looked at in yet another way, you're dealing with 2 digits in a base-4 number, which has 16 possible outcomes, 4 of which have the same digits. In this case, 2 of those 4 results are "expected" (2 spiders in a row), and wouldn't have been worth posting about. 2 of them represent the "strange" scenario commented on, either 2 zombies, or 2 skeletons, for 1 out of 8, or 12.5%.

But really, it comes down to the same thing you're saying above, just looked at from a different
perspective.

I was refferring to getting a consecutive scroll drop from any spawner, regardless of identity. This is obviously thrown off by multiple spider spawners, so whatever. Also yay for being able to discuss math with relevance to fun! :D

[Sarudak]

Could you cool it on the massive quoted text please?