Well, that was frustrating

[daveboy2000]

And this is why every secondary school should have philosophy, and not only Atheneums & Gymnasiums. (It learns people how to back up their arguments, and make good arguments in general)

[destineternel]

I just think people are better then this 'he said, she said' drama that goes on in the minecraft community. It's been more noticeable as of late. I have really stepped back from participating in the general minecraft community. I lurk here on the BTW forums and occasionally go to MCF to see the mod update topics. But it mainly comes down to maturity and respect which seems to slowly dissolving away from the community. To quote a line from a movie "I'm getting too old for this shit.". I just play the game and have fun.


FC has my respect as does this community on the BTW forum.

[SterlingRed]

Dang I missed all the action. Again. Always seems to happen.

Anyway, I find it odd that not a single post of anyone supporting btw, or any post by anyone here being neutral remains. All thats left over there is Eloraam's original inflammatory and incorrect post, and several of her fans praising her mod and making a few accusations against btw.

Between this thread, and what little remains on mcf, I have at least an idea of what happened. It strikes me as extremely odd that her fans, and other forge fans, seem to have this idea that FC intentionally does stuff so that BTW is incompatible. Where did this idea originate?

It really does show the intelligence of that community if they can't look at btw's features and figure out why they create incompatibilities. Yes I do fully support FC, but I don't feel this community should participate in the 'war'. What if we win? If we won the 'war' we'd end up with all those derp players. As far as I'm concerned, Eloraam can keep her fans if they are like that. FC has always developed the mod for himself and the similar like minded. I know these forums are an extremely small percentage of the community that uses btw, but I like to think that this is the core of the community, the involved and dedicated like minded players FC makes the mod for.

And since mcf already thinks FC makes this mod intentionally incompatible... I say do it. For several release cycles, prove to the community that BTW can literally stand alone and hold its community without any compatibility except for btb of course. I don't know how easy it would be to break compatibility with every single mod in existence, but it would be fucking awesome if FC could do it. Prove that BTW can stand on its own. The mcf community would probably get out their pitchforks and torches but the steel block wall of solid hard evidence that BTW is a good mod, created by an excellent modder and hasn't gotten to where it is by manipulation or sucking up to everyone else is more than enough to hold them back. Their unanswered fury at BTW would quickly begin to look absurd and ridiculous. And the intelligent ones will join us behind the wall, leaving the ranting zombie masses to drive Eloraam to madness.

I also feel like a new subtitle for btw lies somewhere in this mess. "the mod that adds stuff to minecraft" has been up for a while. Time for a change.

[FlowerChild]

It wouldn't help man. People are still going on that my leaving the Forge killed this mod's popularity, which is just plain false, but doesn't stop people from saying it.

"Nobody plays BTW anymore" is a favorite line of these clowns.

Also, I've been determined throughout this whole thing to not let this drama affect the mod itself, or my desire to make it. That is one of the big reasons I left the Forge to begin with, as participating in that situation was detrimental to my enjoyment of making my own mod.

Getting further caught up in this to the point where it starts affecting the mod design, and where I start spending large chunks of time coding with the sole purpose of participating in this thing, wouldn't be beneficial to anyone.

My participation in this begins and ends with the occasional posting flurry.

[SterlingRed]

It wouldn't help man. People are still going on that my leaving the Forge killed this mod's popularity, which is just plain false, but doesn't stop people from saying it.

"Nobody plays BTW anymore" is a favorite line of these clowns.

Thats a good candidate as a new subtitle for the mcf btw thread.

You're probably right that it wouldn't help. You can't change the minds of those who've bought into insanity's cry.

[FlowerChild]

Thats a good candidate as a new subtitle for the mcf btw thread.

Brilliant. I'm not going with precisely that, but I'll be changing the thread title momentarily.

[rhacer]

"Nobody plays BTW anymore" is a favorite line of these clowns.

As BTW is the only reason I play Minecraft anymore, I find the above to be quite funny.

[SterlingRed]

Thats a good candidate as a new subtitle for the mcf btw thread.

Brilliant. I'm not going with precisely that, but I'll be changing the thread title momentarily.

Just checked MCF. Its perfect!

[destineternel]

As BTW is the only reason I play Minecraft anymore, I find the above to be quite funny.

I also agree, BTW is the only mod I use now.

[Stormweaver]

I like it; that it comes with 2 meanings just improves it further. Bravo!

[SterlingRed]

As BTW is the only reason I play Minecraft anymore, I find the above to be quite funny.

I also agree, BTW is the only mod I use now.

I play multiplayer on occasion, but only briefly before I dive back into the protection of btw.
On that note, god damnit. I'm traveling this weekend. I copied my .bin and btw saves from my desktop to a flash drive so I could play off my laptop for a bit. Guess where my flash drive is? Still in my desktop. And I didn't enable remote access. Curses. multiplayer it is i guess.

[FlowerChild]

I like it; that it comes with 2 meanings just improves it further. Bravo!

Thanks :)

[walker_boh_65]

Love the new title FC. Very clever you are. :)

[Catox]

wow... I got 1984ed =__=

that's quite interesting, and totally un-understandable...
Someone had to ask "please" people to stop the mod bashing that was going on against Eloraam.
This was a nice opportunity to point that, precisely, there were no mod bashing graspable on the thread and that it was impossible to understand what the guy was talking about.
Two persons kindly answered innocent me, first explaining it was about a war they rather not hearing about, second one much more interesting. Alas, I didn't copy it but this one told me there was some kind talking between himself and FlowerChild, that the problem was now softened and that Eloraam had even asked and gotten permission from FC to implement cement (and something I forgot) in some next update. The important part being : everything was going smoothly when everyone went to bed. And then all those messages disappeared.

yay

[FlowerChild]

Alas, I didn't copy it but this one told me there was some kind talking between himself and FlowerChild, that the problem was now softened and that Eloraam had even asked and gotten permission from FC to implement cement (and something I forgot) in some next update. The important part being : everything was going smoothly when everyone went to bed. And then all those messages disappeared.

yay

Except that permission was never asked or given.

It is *possible* that she asked something to that effect many months ago when we were still on good terms, and I responded with a "whatever", but beyond that...no. Her and I haven't even spoken since I left the Forge, with the one exception being briefly on that Youtube vid a few weeks ago. There were a few things like that she asked about at the start of our acquaintance (I honestly don't remember if cement was one of them as we're talking 6+ months ago or so) when RedPower was still primarily a Redstone mod. My general attitude was "whatever man, you don't need my permission", but this was before she exhibited the consistent pattern of ripping off other people's ideas.

The whole point is rather ridiculous anyways: it's not like it's ever stopped her in the past. It's just more self-justification (she said something similar in one of her deleted posts last night).

For the record, Eloraam does NOT have my permission to do any of this. It's not like she needs it, but I'm definitely not complicit in her behavior. I suspect she said as much just to fan the flames of this higher, and again, to try and make herself look like the "good guy".

Do you honestly think I'd give her permission for any of this given the context?

As for someone talking to me: I DID NOT speak to anyone outside of here and the MCF thread last night, and I've certainly not softened in my attitude towards her in any way. If anything, this whole episode has only served to convince me further that she's total scum.

[RaustBlackDragon]

IMHO, the only reason why she can get away with this is because of your reputation. I believe you told me, not upset about it at all, that you're something of a Darth Vader to a bunch of communities. Nobody bothers to fact-check her because their misconceptions about you make them unable to put the things she accuses you of past you.

The thread deletions are incredibly suspect, as if I weren't told that comments were deleted, I wouldn't know. It's like it was intended to make people think that no such disagreement or protest ever took place.

That doesn't sound like a moderator. I suspect she had something to do with this.

[FlowerChild]

IMHO, the only reason why she can get away with this is because of your reputation. I believe you told me, not upset about it at all, that you're something of a Darth Vader to a bunch of communities. Nobody bothers to fact-check her because their misconceptions about you make them unable to put the things she accuses you of past you.

Oh, for sure man. I've definitely made my own bed in this, and in no way am claiming to be a victim :)

It's still a case where I really don't give a fuck what the majority of the community thinks about me, as I have my own reasons for making this mod. However, when someone as prominent as she is starts throwing around these statements, I will admit that I feel the urge to respond, even if it's potentially playing right into what she's wanting.

[Catox]

Except that permission was never asked or given.

Thanks for the precision, this guy really surprised me at that point.
Given his "it's all pretty now" style, it seems he actually didn't really understand what info you gave him...

Well, my point really was on the nonsensical mass destruction of posts but no-one really saw it before I got touched myself.
Trying again a more direct way ^^


@Raust
That's what I really don't understand with those people. What do you care about some creator behavior when it's all really about a game that you play.
Truly, if Eloraam's mod interested me enough to make me want to play it, why would I care about it being said to be a mass rip-off if in my opinion the result is good anyway ?
Do minecraft players go on a war everytime someone tells them its graphics are bad and outdated ? come on...

[RaustBlackDragon]

The scariest thing about this is that she's established some sort of borg morality, raising people's standards about compatibility and thus making anybody who opposes the project look evil.

However, I have been thinking: You supported the forge in the beginning, and you had a vision of what you thought you guys should have been doing with the project: adding in hooks that lots of people could use, but doing so in moderation, keeping the codebase from becoming too huge or incomprehensible.

From what I've heard from your interviews, that actual vision hasn't been tarnished, and you still feel that something like that would be worthwhile.

Why not head your own API project? Forge's influence stems entirely from its monopoly. I realize that the official API is coming out, but the fact that Eloraam shows absolutely no concern about this, and the fact that she's involved with Mojang now, suggests that whatever the API turns out to be, it isn't going to render the Forge obsolete, and the number of mods climbing onto the forge is increasing by the day. I remember that before you left the forge, it was pretty much just the tech mods. Then a few more tech mods. Then Mo' Creeps and Weirdos. Then Twilight Forest. It's not going to shrink on its own. Currently we're relying on the Mojang API to stop this, and that's a really unsafe bet IMHO.

[FlowerChild]

Why not head your own API project?

That possibility was discussed amongst several modders right after I left the Forge.

I'm just not primarily interested in making API's or dealing with this kind of stuff anymore man. As I've talked about in the past, I don't even much care for programming, I just use it as a tool to make games.

Working on something so code-intensive would bore the shit out of me. That is not my kind of fun.

And honestly man, given my public image, do you really see people dropping the Forge for something I'm promoting? I certainly don't. Also, try selling most modders on the concept of an API that provides *less* functionality than what they can get elsewhere for the sake of keeping the project manageable. I've been to the Forge channel in the past few weeks, and it seemed to be packed with "me wants more hooks", with LexManos seemingly being the only one expressing concern that the API was becoming more difficult to manage.

To me, the best hope of resolution in all this is the official mod API, which is a third reason I wouldn't start my own at this stage.

[TheAnarchitect]

Because that would simultaneously take time away from working on BTW, and force him to work with other people who he may or may not like.

[RaustBlackDragon]

Right, I was starting to second-guess my post for reasons like those after I posted it. However:

To me, the best hope of resolution in all this is the official mod API, which is a third reason I wouldn't start my own at this stage.

I'm getting increasingly nervous that this isn't going to stop her. She's still working on developing the forge now, the API doesn't seem to concern her at all.

But mostly I'm worried about it not stopping her because, well, if it doesn't, what's left?

[FlowerChild]

But mostly I'm worried about it not stopping her because, well, if it doesn't, what's left?

She doesn't need to be, and most probably won't be "stopped" man.

I'm talking about the mod API having the potential for bringing resolution in this in restoring compatibility between BTW and other mods. RedPower will likely be one of those mods, but despite her assertions, me leaving the Forge wasn't to make BTW incompatible with her mod, it was because I couldn't stand working with her anymore and didn't want to be complicit in her behavior.

It's certainly nice that BTW isn't compatible with her mod from my point of view, and I do derive a juvenile pleasure from extending her the middle finger in that way and proving the "nobody will play it anymore" naysayers wrong. I also feel it encourages people to play the mod as it was designed to be played, but none of that will stop me from providing compatibility if an API I feel comfortable working with affords me that opportunity without unreasonable effort or moral compromise.

[RaustBlackDragon]

But mostly I'm worried about it not stopping her because, well, if it doesn't, what's left?

She doesn't need to be, and most probably won't be "stopped" man.

I'm talking about the mod API having the potential for bringing resolution in this in restoring compatibility between BTW and other mods. RedPower will likely be one of those mods, but despite her assertions, me leaving the Forge wasn't to make BTW incompatible with her mod, it was because I couldn't stand working with her anymore and didn't want to be complicit in her behavior.

It's certainly nice that BTW isn't compatible with her mod from my point of view, and I do derive a juvenile pleasure from extending her the middle finger in that way and proving the "nobody will play it anymore" naysayers wrong. I also feel it encourages people to play the mod as it was designed to be played, but none of that will stop me from providing compatibility if an API I feel comfortable working with affords me that opportunity without unreasonable effort or moral compromise.

Ah, sorry, when I said "Stopped" I meant more along the lines of keeping forge from consuming the modding community, not to stop her from making mods.

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

she definitely seems to want a monopoly on tech mods. She seems to want her mod to "do it all" in a way that is "better" than any other mod. she is being competitive where competition is not expected or approved of by any one who is objective enough to see the big picture.