"New Subforum! Grammatical Tips and Tricks!"FlowerChild wrote:Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)
New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Eh, the Intelligence Test isn't perfect: the occasional troglodyte has to slip through for new and more productive members to arrive.FlowerChild wrote:Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)
Shiny, please, please, PLEASE use a spell-checker... Or at the very least re-read what you're posting. Otherwise you're making us all go
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Aww, comeon. Be nice. BigShinyToys is from WA after all. Not cultured like the Victorians. I'm impressed they even have Internet over there :)Triskelli wrote: Eh, the Intelligence Test isn't perfect: the occasional troglodyte has to slip through for new and more productive members to arrive.
I'm glad you don't. You have a pretty good vision of where to go with the mod. To be honest, i would rather sit back and enjoy what spills fourth from your programming fingers and on a very rare occasion stick my hand up for a "hey how about this idea".FlowerChild wrote:Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)
Anyway, back to Work (or at least, looking like I'm working).
Flowerchild (IRC) wrote:I'm not trying to stop you BTW ..., I'm saying that I think you're a piece of shit...not the same thing
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
The next logical step:
What settings will produce what times when used with out friend "The AND gate". Might be useful for automated wheat/mushroom farms to have a timer with several days between intervals :)
Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?
What settings will produce what times when used with out friend "The AND gate". Might be useful for automated wheat/mushroom farms to have a timer with several days between intervals :)
Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?
FlowerChild: Ice in deserts is a good idea
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
I made an interesting discovery about the turntable while playing around with it myself tonight.
It turns out that if you're rotating a torch directly over a wire that leads into the Turntable, it powers it, reversing the direction.
What this effectively does is creates a two state oscillation where the torch will rotate onto the wire, then back off it again from the direction which it came from.
Not sure about what applications this could have just yet, but I thought I'd just throw it out there as an interesting tid-bit to play around with ;)
It turns out that if you're rotating a torch directly over a wire that leads into the Turntable, it powers it, reversing the direction.
What this effectively does is creates a two state oscillation where the torch will rotate onto the wire, then back off it again from the direction which it came from.
Not sure about what applications this could have just yet, but I thought I'd just throw it out there as an interesting tid-bit to play around with ;)
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Reset.Urian wrote: Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Is it supposed to reset? I just checked my Archimedes' Screw. Power cut from the water wheel with a switch on the gear box(attached to the wheel), the turn table maintained the 3rd speed setting when re-powered.FlowerChild wrote:Reset.Urian wrote: Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?
- BigShinyToys
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:53 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Spoiler
Show
I might not be able to spell Correctly and i can't use correct grammar to save my life But I can use redstone . this is the clock i was talking about in my NEWS FLASH that was locked after Triskelli posted on it by an unknown Moderator.
. Locked Thread Link here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=230
I am trying to be a useful member in these forums, my intention is not be Annoying or irritate anyone .I do use the Built in spell check in Mozilla Firefox . I Know it is not good for grammar or punctuation. and trust me if i wanted to be a troll these forums would be Down 90% of the time.
EDIT: sorry about the 90% down Bit ( it was a Joke, sarcasm douse not work well in text form ) .
( lighten up this is meant to be a FUN game )
Big Shiny Toys
Last edited by BigShinyToys on Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Umm...your clock thread isn't locked?? And Triskelli isn't a mod, so he (or she, sorry Triskelli, since I don't know. :P) wouldn't be able to lock it anyway. Not only this, but none of the above people were saying you are a troll, and saying things like "...if I wanted to be a troll these forums would be down 90% of the time" makes you sound like an ass. Your clock idea is awesome, and I can't wait to see it finished. Keep it in the thread you've created for it.BigShinyToys wrote:viewtopic.php?f=3&t=249&p=3174#p3174SpoilerShow
I might not be able to spell Correctly and i cant use correct grammar to save my life But I can use redstone . this is the clock i was talking about in my NEWS FLASH that was locked by Triskelli
. Link hereviewtopic.php?f=3&t=230
I am trying to be a useful member in these forums, my intention is not be Annoying or irritate anyone .I do use the Built in spell check in Mozilla Firefox . I Know it is not good for grammar or punctuation. and trust me if i wanted to be a troll these forums would be Down 90% of the time.
( lighten up this is meant to be a FUN game )
BigShinytoys
-BuLLZ3Y3
P.S. Your "NEWS FLASH" thread was locked due to you restating something that was already said in a thread created by FC himself (I believe it was this thread actually?) and therefore not needed anymore. Trust me when I say that if a thread has the name FlowerChild attached to it, it gets read.
P.P.S. I'm making a Disco Tech with a floor of flashing lightblocks. Gogogadget turntable! *wickywickyword*
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
My computer has been acting up the last few days, and I didn't even notice this was a new update.
so uh... thanks FC.
Spoiler
Show
HOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED. I MEAN EXCARSONATED. I'M WHATEVER THAT WORD IS I INVENTED AND THEN SOME.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
You're welcome man, and I still want to have your babies :)Brothulhu wrote:My computer has been acting up the last few days, and I didn't even notice this was a new update.
so uh... thanks FC.SpoilerShowHOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED. I MEAN EXCARSONATED. I'M WHATEVER THAT WORD IS I INVENTED AND THEN SOME.
-
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:54 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Actually, it was fairly sophisticated with it's own series of engineering and wiring problems, but that's beside the point. My problem isn't with the turntable's functionality as a clock, but just that it's so easy to set it to exactly how often you want it to go off. I mean, you were the one who talked against adding things like wireless redstone or logic gate blocks, because they trivialized the innovation and ingenuity required to build things with redstone normally.FlowerChild wrote:Sorry to be spoiling your fun by making new useful features that replace drudgery?AgentPaper wrote:Aw, I'm kinda disappointed, actually. Here I'd just finished making a system of counters using redstone and pistons that could effectively turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock and a 1-hour clock, and now it's obsolete because of the super-modifiable turntable. =(
I mean I love the idea of the turntable in general, I'm sure there's a ton of cool stuff we can do with it, but do we really need 10 (11?) different settings in such a huge range of options? Whatever happened to "simple machines that do simple things, and it's up to the player to combine them into a sophisticated machine?"
Edit: Still better than wolves though. ;)
Seriously dude, are you arguing that constructing a timer the size of a building, when all it is, is an extended series of NOT gates, and when it will freeze up on you every time you load a save-game is 'fun'?
If so, then I will be spoiling even more of your fun when you no longer have to build massive towers of torches to communicate redstone signals vertically once I include the Lens.
I'm certainly looking forwards to the lens, though, because vertical transport of redstone isn't exactly very interesting right now and the lens brings it's own complexities and requirements to the deal that should make it interesting to build with. It also makes a lot of things possible that weren't before, because of the inherent delays and/or bulkiness of vertical redstone before it.
Edit: Just to be clear, I thought I should post the redstone/piston counter I've been using. I think some people may have thought I was talking about some huge device with hundreds of diodes. On the contrary, it actually only takes up a ~20x5x5 space to turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock, and then another identical space to turn that 1-minute clock into a 1-hour clock.
The core of the device is this:
This takes in a single redstone pulse from the bottom left, which toggles the latch on the right, pushing the piston into place. When a second pulse comes in, it travels through the block pushed by the piston to the diode beyond, which then also resets the latch. If you put a few of these out in a row, then you essentially double the amount of pulses required before a pulse goes through the output. With 6 of these in a row, you get a counter that goes to 64. With a bit of extra wiring involving a seperate line for the pulses to travel through that only works when the last 4 latches are set and resets the last 4 latches when a pulse goes through it turns that into a counter that goes to 60. Send the output from that set of counters into another, identical set, and you get a counter that goes to (60*60=) 3600. You can then take the output from the original 1-second clock and the output of each set of counters, and now you have three lines, one that pulses every second, one that pulses every minute, and one that pulses every hour. Then all you need is some way of displaying this output.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Sigh. You're absolutely right.AgentPaper wrote:Aw, I'm kinda disappointed, actually. Here I'd just finished making a system of counters using redstone and pistons that could effectively turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock and a 1-hour clock, and now it's obsolete because of the super-modifiable turntable. =(
I've been increasingly bothered by the power of the Turntable since I put it out, not only for the reasons you mention, but also due to what it does to the tech-tree of the mod itself.
I'm going to have to severely nerf it both in terms of the number of settings allowed, and the height to which it operates (which is the other aspect that's bugging the shit out of me right now), and probably piss a lot of people off in the process. The type of accuracy and power it has right now is MUCH better suited to the next full tech-level. At present, it's just way overpowered, regardless of what I do to the recipe.
So, sorry guys, but for the long term good of the mod I'm going to have to take some drastic measures here.
Note to self: If you're tired and about to release a new feature, leave it to the next day when you have had a chance to properly evaluate its impact on the game.
- FurkeyRefills
- Posts: 482
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:49 am
- Location: England
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Well the current settings are ".5 sec/1 sec/ 2 sec/ 5 sec/ 10 sec/ 30 sec/1 min/2 min/ 5 min".
So why don't you cut out these ones 30 sec/1 min/2 min ?
Thats shortens it down to only six settings, but you could also take away half a second as Steve may not even know about decimals, there isn't anything in the game that the Steve is supposed to see that goes below 0 ?
Smite me if I'm wrong :P
So why don't you cut out these ones 30 sec/1 min/2 min ?
Thats shortens it down to only six settings, but you could also take away half a second as Steve may not even know about decimals, there isn't anything in the game that the Steve is supposed to see that goes below 0 ?
Smite me if I'm wrong :P
FlowerChild wrote:I've made another decision... Fuck being a plug-in.
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
That's hard to admit, but you're right.FlowerChild wrote:Sigh. You're absolutely right.
I've been increasingly bothered by the power of the Turntable since I put it out, not only for the reasons you mention, but also due to what it does to the tech-tree of the mod itself.
I was finishing something I was workin' on, so I didn't test the Turnable properly, but now that I did a bit, I found that it really doesn't fit the rest of the mod.
First the mechanism is really complex with all thoose settings. There sould be only 4, or 5 (1/2 second, (2sec?), 5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec).
This way you'll still need to be creative to build longer clock.
As for the height, I'd say no more than 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the minimum height needed to have 2 different signals from the same Turnable without mixing up the wires.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
I'm cutting down the settings to 4:
.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.
I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)
Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.
I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...
.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.
I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)
Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.
I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
You've been working with Notch's code for so long that some of him is rubbing off on you. :)FlowerChild wrote: I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand.
People should understand that MC is beta and BTW is a WIP. They should, but not all do.
"That's the nice thing about mods. There's something for everyone. Some of us like to build functional elevators, while others want to run around with a bunny on their head."
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
I agree with the decision, though. It did certainly feel a bit overpowered. That's one of my favorite things about btw, it doesnt just add a few insane op blocks, it allows logical progression and a smooth curve of power, and this block certainly does interrupt that at it's current level. The ones who hate are probably the same ones that suggest guns, so i wouldn't sweat it :pFlowerChild wrote:I'm cutting down the settings to 4:
.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.
I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)
Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.
I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Have you thought about having an upgraded (ie close to the current) version in a later tech tier? That way it would be possible to both have an early version now and a more "usable" version later. Or simply move it to a later tech tier entirely once Steve gets there. Having such a severe nerf (I really dislike that word but it's become the standard term) would indeed move it from an extremely useful block to a block that feels kinda underpowered in terms of possibilities compared to the other mechanical items.FlowerChild wrote:I'm cutting down the settings to 4:
.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.
I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)
Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.
I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...
FlowerChild: Ice in deserts is a good idea
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
You're probably more right there than you realize. The reason I chose the height of 12 was because it matched the pistons.cheechako wrote: You've been working with Notch's code for so long that some of him is rubbing off on you. :)
Basically, Notch overpowered them IMO (like, seriously, that's a MASSIVE volume of material to be moving far exceeding the power of any other redstone device by several orders of magnitude), to match the Piston mod, and I followed suit.
I won't make that mistake again ;)
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
That's exactly what I plan to do. As I said, the power and accuracy of the current implementation are much better suited to the next tech-level. For now though, it's just too out of place to leave as is.Urian wrote: Have you thought about having an upgraded (ie close to the current) version in a later tech tier?
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Not necessarily.FlowerChild wrote:I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...
The turntable is out for only a few days, so it won't affect that much devices and people.
You should release the nerfed version asap though, before people start using them for real.
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
I think it's a perfectly reasonable change, I was looking forward to the simplicity the overpoweredness (can't think of a synonym for this, just woke up) would provide. See Archimedes' screw using turntable where Riveter has been exploiting it's current form to good use. However this change just means we'll need to be smarter about how we do it.
The turntable still functions as a great timing device, just not the only one you'll ever need to build.
The turntable still functions as a great timing device, just not the only one you'll ever need to build.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
Yup, that's exactly my thought, and also why I don't want to wait to retrofit the changes to the next tech-level (it would break everyone's existing contraptions if I did that).Battosay wrote: Not necessarily.
The turntable is out for only a few days, so it won't affect that much devices and people.
You should release the nerfed version asap though, before people start using them for real.
Will likely be within the next hour or two. I believe I have a version close to ready. I just want to package it and test on the release version of Minecraft.
I do believe this will be the most hated update I ever put out. As I mentioned yesterday I have some other balance issues I'm addressing with it too.
Oh well :)
- Ferrus.Manus
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 7:53 pm
Re: New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)
If you are nerfing them I think you shouldn't increase the price then (no watch required at least). Save the watch for the super-turntable. But I agree that current version are too useful for it's place in the tech tree. Though I think 2 block high might be a tad but too low, 3-4 sounds better to me. I understand your reasoning with redstone, but frankly vertical redstone circuitry is a bloody mess and making something a bit better at it wouldn't break the game. From what I seen lenses will be much better at it anyway.