New Release! (BTW Version 2.70)

[KriiEiter]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)

"New Subforum! Grammatical Tips and Tricks!"

[Triskelli]

Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)

Eh, the Intelligence Test isn't perfect: the occasional troglodyte has to slip through for new and more productive members to arrive.

Shiny, please, please, PLEASE use a spell-checker... Or at the very least re-read what you're posting. Otherwise you're making us all go

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[finite8]

Eh, the Intelligence Test isn't perfect: the occasional troglodyte has to slip through for new and more productive members to arrive.

Aww, comeon. Be nice. BigShinyToys is from WA after all. Not cultured like the Victorians. I'm impressed they even have Internet over there :)

Thanks for reminding me why I don't like to discuss feature implementation before I release Shiny :)

I'm glad you don't. You have a pretty good vision of where to go with the mod. To be honest, i would rather sit back and enjoy what spills fourth from your programming fingers and on a very rare occasion stick my hand up for a "hey how about this idea".

Anyway, back to Work (or at least, looking like I'm working).

[Urian]

The next logical step:
What settings will produce what times when used with out friend "The AND gate". Might be useful for automated wheat/mushroom farms to have a timer with several days between intervals :)

Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?

[FlowerChild]

I made an interesting discovery about the turntable while playing around with it myself tonight.

It turns out that if you're rotating a torch directly over a wire that leads into the Turntable, it powers it, reversing the direction.

What this effectively does is creates a two state oscillation where the torch will rotate onto the wire, then back off it again from the direction which it came from.

Not sure about what applications this could have just yet, but I thought I'd just throw it out there as an interesting tid-bit to play around with ;)

[FlowerChild]

Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?

Reset.

[Riveter]

Also, a question: Is the timing of the turntable reset if the mechanical power is cut or is it merely paused?

Reset.

Is it supposed to reset? I just checked my Archimedes' Screw. Power cut from the water wheel with a switch on the gear box(attached to the wheel), the turn table maintained the 3rd speed setting when re-powered.

[BigShinyToys]

Spoiler

Show

Link to Clock project viewtopic.php?f=3&t=249&p=3174#p3174
I might not be able to spell Correctly and i can't use correct grammar to save my life But I can use redstone . this is the clock i was talking about in my NEWS FLASH that was locked after Triskelli posted on it by an unknown Moderator.
. Locked Thread Link here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=230
I am trying to be a useful member in these forums, my intention is not be Annoying or irritate anyone .I do use the Built in spell check in Mozilla Firefox . I Know it is not good for grammar or punctuation. and trust me if i wanted to be a troll these forums would be Down 90% of the time.

EDIT: sorry about the 90% down Bit ( it was a Joke, sarcasm douse not work well in text form ) .

( lighten up this is meant to be a FUN game )
Big Shiny Toys

[BuLLZ3Y3]

Spoiler

Show

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=249&p=3174#p3174
I might not be able to spell Correctly and i cant use correct grammar to save my life But I can use redstone . this is the clock i was talking about in my NEWS FLASH that was locked by Triskelli
. Link hereviewtopic.php?f=3&t=230
I am trying to be a useful member in these forums, my intention is not be Annoying or irritate anyone .I do use the Built in spell check in Mozilla Firefox . I Know it is not good for grammar or punctuation. and trust me if i wanted to be a troll these forums would be Down 90% of the time.

( lighten up this is meant to be a FUN game )
BigShinytoys

Umm...your clock thread isn't locked?? And Triskelli isn't a mod, so he (or she, sorry Triskelli, since I don't know. :P) wouldn't be able to lock it anyway. Not only this, but none of the above people were saying you are a troll, and saying things like "...if I wanted to be a troll these forums would be down 90% of the time" makes you sound like an ass. Your clock idea is awesome, and I can't wait to see it finished. Keep it in the thread you've created for it.

-BuLLZ3Y3

P.S. Your "NEWS FLASH" thread was locked due to you restating something that was already said in a thread created by FC himself (I believe it was this thread actually?) and therefore not needed anymore. Trust me when I say that if a thread has the name FlowerChild attached to it, it gets read.

P.P.S. I'm making a Disco Tech with a floor of flashing lightblocks. Gogogadget turntable! *wickywickyword*

[Brothulhu]

My computer has been acting up the last few days, and I didn't even notice this was a new update.

Spoiler

Show

HOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED. I MEAN EXCARSONATED. I'M WHATEVER THAT WORD IS I INVENTED AND THEN SOME.

so uh... thanks FC.

[FlowerChild]

My computer has been acting up the last few days, and I didn't even notice this was a new update.

Spoiler

Show

HOLY SHIT I'M SO EXCITED. I MEAN EXCARSONATED. I'M WHATEVER THAT WORD IS I INVENTED AND THEN SOME.

so uh... thanks FC.

You're welcome man, and I still want to have your babies :)

[AgentPaper]

Aw, I'm kinda disappointed, actually. Here I'd just finished making a system of counters using redstone and pistons that could effectively turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock and a 1-hour clock, and now it's obsolete because of the super-modifiable turntable. =(

I mean I love the idea of the turntable in general, I'm sure there's a ton of cool stuff we can do with it, but do we really need 10 (11?) different settings in such a huge range of options? Whatever happened to "simple machines that do simple things, and it's up to the player to combine them into a sophisticated machine?"

Edit: Still better than wolves though. ;)

Sorry to be spoiling your fun by making new useful features that replace drudgery?

Seriously dude, are you arguing that constructing a timer the size of a building, when all it is, is an extended series of NOT gates, and when it will freeze up on you every time you load a save-game is 'fun'?

If so, then I will be spoiling even more of your fun when you no longer have to build massive towers of torches to communicate redstone signals vertically once I include the Lens.

Actually, it was fairly sophisticated with it's own series of engineering and wiring problems, but that's beside the point. My problem isn't with the turntable's functionality as a clock, but just that it's so easy to set it to exactly how often you want it to go off. I mean, you were the one who talked against adding things like wireless redstone or logic gate blocks, because they trivialized the innovation and ingenuity required to build things with redstone normally.

I'm certainly looking forwards to the lens, though, because vertical transport of redstone isn't exactly very interesting right now and the lens brings it's own complexities and requirements to the deal that should make it interesting to build with. It also makes a lot of things possible that weren't before, because of the inherent delays and/or bulkiness of vertical redstone before it.


Edit: Just to be clear, I thought I should post the redstone/piston counter I've been using. I think some people may have thought I was talking about some huge device with hundreds of diodes. On the contrary, it actually only takes up a ~20x5x5 space to turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock, and then another identical space to turn that 1-minute clock into a 1-hour clock.

The core of the device is this:



This takes in a single redstone pulse from the bottom left, which toggles the latch on the right, pushing the piston into place. When a second pulse comes in, it travels through the block pushed by the piston to the diode beyond, which then also resets the latch. If you put a few of these out in a row, then you essentially double the amount of pulses required before a pulse goes through the output. With 6 of these in a row, you get a counter that goes to 64. With a bit of extra wiring involving a seperate line for the pulses to travel through that only works when the last 4 latches are set and resets the last 4 latches when a pulse goes through it turns that into a counter that goes to 60. Send the output from that set of counters into another, identical set, and you get a counter that goes to (60*60=) 3600. You can then take the output from the original 1-second clock and the output of each set of counters, and now you have three lines, one that pulses every second, one that pulses every minute, and one that pulses every hour. Then all you need is some way of displaying this output.

[FlowerChild]

Aw, I'm kinda disappointed, actually. Here I'd just finished making a system of counters using redstone and pistons that could effectively turn a 1-second clock into a 1-minute clock and a 1-hour clock, and now it's obsolete because of the super-modifiable turntable. =(

Sigh. You're absolutely right.

I've been increasingly bothered by the power of the Turntable since I put it out, not only for the reasons you mention, but also due to what it does to the tech-tree of the mod itself.

I'm going to have to severely nerf it both in terms of the number of settings allowed, and the height to which it operates (which is the other aspect that's bugging the shit out of me right now), and probably piss a lot of people off in the process. The type of accuracy and power it has right now is MUCH better suited to the next full tech-level. At present, it's just way overpowered, regardless of what I do to the recipe.

So, sorry guys, but for the long term good of the mod I'm going to have to take some drastic measures here.

Note to self: If you're tired and about to release a new feature, leave it to the next day when you have had a chance to properly evaluate its impact on the game.

[FurkeyRefills]

Well the current settings are ".5 sec/1 sec/ 2 sec/ 5 sec/ 10 sec/ 30 sec/1 min/2 min/ 5 min".
So why don't you cut out these ones 30 sec/1 min/2 min ?
Thats shortens it down to only six settings, but you could also take away half a second as Steve may not even know about decimals, there isn't anything in the game that the Steve is supposed to see that goes below 0 ?
Smite me if I'm wrong :P

[Battosay]

Sigh. You're absolutely right.

I've been increasingly bothered by the power of the Turntable since I put it out, not only for the reasons you mention, but also due to what it does to the tech-tree of the mod itself.

That's hard to admit, but you're right.
I was finishing something I was workin' on, so I didn't test the Turnable properly, but now that I did a bit, I found that it really doesn't fit the rest of the mod.
First the mechanism is really complex with all thoose settings. There sould be only 4, or 5 (1/2 second, (2sec?), 5 sec, 10 sec, 30 sec).
This way you'll still need to be creative to build longer clock.

As for the height, I'd say no more than 4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the minimum height needed to have 2 different signals from the same Turnable without mixing up the wires.

[FlowerChild]

I'm cutting down the settings to 4:

.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.

I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)

Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.

I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...

[cheechako]

I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand.

You've been working with Notch's code for so long that some of him is rubbing off on you. :)

People should understand that MC is beta and BTW is a WIP. They should, but not all do.

[BinoAl]

I'm cutting down the settings to 4:

.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.

I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)

Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.

I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...

I agree with the decision, though. It did certainly feel a bit overpowered. That's one of my favorite things about btw, it doesnt just add a few insane op blocks, it allows logical progression and a smooth curve of power, and this block certainly does interrupt that at it's current level. The ones who hate are probably the same ones that suggest guns, so i wouldn't sweat it :p

[Urian]

I'm cutting down the settings to 4:

.5 sec/ 1 sec/ 2 sec/ 4 sec.

I'm also reducing the height it rotates to from 12 blocks down to 2 (minimum height to operate tracks above without the redstone signal to reverse the turntable not interfering with the tracks)

Like I said, SEVERELY nerfed, to the point where I'm going to have to redo the demo video.

I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...

Have you thought about having an upgraded (ie close to the current) version in a later tech tier? That way it would be possible to both have an early version now and a more "usable" version later. Or simply move it to a later tech tier entirely once Steve gets there. Having such a severe nerf (I really dislike that word but it's become the standard term) would indeed move it from an extremely useful block to a block that feels kinda underpowered in terms of possibilities compared to the other mechanical items.

[FlowerChild]

You've been working with Notch's code for so long that some of him is rubbing off on you. :)

You're probably more right there than you realize. The reason I chose the height of 12 was because it matched the pistons.

Basically, Notch overpowered them IMO (like, seriously, that's a MASSIVE volume of material to be moving far exceeding the power of any other redstone device by several orders of magnitude), to match the Piston mod, and I followed suit.

I won't make that mistake again ;)

[FlowerChild]

Have you thought about having an upgraded (ie close to the current) version in a later tech tier?

That's exactly what I plan to do. As I said, the power and accuracy of the current implementation are much better suited to the next tech-level. For now though, it's just too out of place to leave as is.

[Battosay]

I expect to be hated for this choice, but it's my own damn fault for rushing a release out without properly balancing beforehand. If I just would have released with the above to begin with, everyone would have been happy. Now...

Not necessarily.
The turntable is out for only a few days, so it won't affect that much devices and people.
You should release the nerfed version asap though, before people start using them for real.

[gftweek]

I think it's a perfectly reasonable change, I was looking forward to the simplicity the overpoweredness (can't think of a synonym for this, just woke up) would provide. See Archimedes' screw using turntable where Riveter has been exploiting it's current form to good use. However this change just means we'll need to be smarter about how we do it.

The turntable still functions as a great timing device, just not the only one you'll ever need to build.

[FlowerChild]

Not necessarily.
The turntable is out for only a few days, so it won't affect that much devices and people.
You should release the nerfed version asap though, before people start using them for real.

Yup, that's exactly my thought, and also why I don't want to wait to retrofit the changes to the next tech-level (it would break everyone's existing contraptions if I did that).

Will likely be within the next hour or two. I believe I have a version close to ready. I just want to package it and test on the release version of Minecraft.

I do believe this will be the most hated update I ever put out. As I mentioned yesterday I have some other balance issues I'm addressing with it too.

Oh well :)

[Ferrus.Manus]

If you are nerfing them I think you shouldn't increase the price then (no watch required at least). Save the watch for the super-turntable. But I agree that current version are too useful for it's place in the tech tree. Though I think 2 block high might be a tad but too low, 3-4 sounds better to me. I understand your reasoning with redstone, but frankly vertical redstone circuitry is a bloody mess and making something a bit better at it wouldn't break the game. From what I seen lenses will be much better at it anyway.