Logic gates
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:22 am
Logic gates
Using the repeater's dimensions:
I'm not sure how well this would go with New Age or whatever, but smaller circuits = more complex machines. The one in this picture is an XNOR gate, as depicted in the 5x3 symbol at the top left. I'm not sure about the feasibility of auto-adjusting input directions, but I wanted to make a gif anyway. To avoid accidentally connecting wires(until bluewire or something surfaces) you'd use the classic repeater method.
To balance mas production, a crafting table with a larger grid could be used to manually make them. For some of the more complex circuits, you could have some that work in pairs, requiring side-by-side placement (3 in a row = up to 6 inputs).
I'm not sure how well this would go with New Age or whatever, but smaller circuits = more complex machines. The one in this picture is an XNOR gate, as depicted in the 5x3 symbol at the top left. I'm not sure about the feasibility of auto-adjusting input directions, but I wanted to make a gif anyway. To avoid accidentally connecting wires(until bluewire or something surfaces) you'd use the classic repeater method.
To balance mas production, a crafting table with a larger grid could be used to manually make them. For some of the more complex circuits, you could have some that work in pairs, requiring side-by-side placement (3 in a row = up to 6 inputs).
- DaveYanakov
- Posts: 2090
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:17 am
Re: Logic gates
Just as a quick heads up, FC is a redstone purist and a fan of more complicated construction in contraptions, not space reduction. I wouldn't get your hopes up, particularly since RedPower already does exactly this.
Better is the enemy of Good
Re: Logic gates
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/365 ... tone-pipe/
this might be what you're looking for. look at the "redpower logic" section of it, specifically
this might be what you're looking for. look at the "redpower logic" section of it, specifically
- walker_boh_65
- Posts: 2304
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:40 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: Logic gates
Oh no, just...no.....
-
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:22 am
Re: Logic gates
Are they compatible together?
Re: Logic gates
Yes, most mods that use Forge are compatible. You might need to change some blockIDs but that's all. Walker_Boh has made a good tutorial how to install them both (as well as a few other mods): viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1296
FlowerChild: Ice in deserts is a good idea
- BigShinyToys
- Posts: 836
- Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:53 pm
Re: Logic gates
There are lots of mods that add Basic logic gates And some that add advanced gates like adders . ( I looked for links but failed sorry ) So the questions is then
Q) Dose it fit BTW ?
A) better than wolves is about adding stuff that notch and mojang should have added . simple things that add a huge amount more playability. and has gone in the direction of mechanical power . so Not really.
Q) Would it be simple to implement ?
A) I think it would not be hard for some one like FC But dont quote me on that.
Q) what new experiences would this add to the game ?
A) None.
Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .
So I think this might be good for some people BUT is not well suited to BTW
Q) Dose it fit BTW ?
A) better than wolves is about adding stuff that notch and mojang should have added . simple things that add a huge amount more playability. and has gone in the direction of mechanical power . so Not really.
Q) Would it be simple to implement ?
A) I think it would not be hard for some one like FC But dont quote me on that.
Q) what new experiences would this add to the game ?
A) None.
Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .
So I think this might be good for some people BUT is not well suited to BTW
-
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:38 pm
Re: Logic gates
[quote="BigShinyToys"]There are lots of mods that add Basic logic gates And some that add advanced gates like adders . ( I looked for links but failed sorry ) So the questions is then
Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .
[\quote]
I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.
It does exist on other mods though, so no need to repeat.
Q) would it cheapen the experience of building with redstone ?
A) my personal opinion is yes . Red stone is meant to be hard to use It makes it more of an accomplishment to complete a lift or factory .
[\quote]
I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.
It does exist on other mods though, so no need to repeat.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: Logic gates
It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.Awfulcopter wrote:I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.
Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.
I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.
Re: Logic gates
You have to have gameplay elements that warrant these gates for them to be useful. As it stands now in BTW, there's no advanced machinery that requires you to have really tricky redstone. The only one right now is the elevator suffering from its vertical height, which will be fixed when we get the lens.
When I was creating a system that pulls cooked stuff out of a cauldron with BC, for example, I did need that complexity. Using RP I set up a 5x5 system to do it, which would've easily taken a HUGE room (20x20x5 or so). In that use case, you need the small gates. There is no machinery of that complexity yet in BTW.
As far as I can tell, pistons and BDs already fulfill large parts of this, so maybe we ought to explore which gates don't have simplified versions yet in BTW.
When I was creating a system that pulls cooked stuff out of a cauldron with BC, for example, I did need that complexity. Using RP I set up a 5x5 system to do it, which would've easily taken a HUGE room (20x20x5 or so). In that use case, you need the small gates. There is no machinery of that complexity yet in BTW.
What would be your opinion on a vacuum tube like system? Provide a few blocks that act like parts of a gate, so you can create a latch that's smaller than a room, but larger than a single block.FlowerChild wrote:It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.
Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.
I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.
As far as I can tell, pistons and BDs already fulfill large parts of this, so maybe we ought to explore which gates don't have simplified versions yet in BTW.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
- Stormweaver
- Posts: 3230
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:06 pm
Re: Logic gates
Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.
PatriotBob wrote:Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.
Re: Logic gates
With the BD update, time for a new thread to show off all the compact gates?Stormweaver wrote:Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
- Stormweaver
- Posts: 3230
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:06 pm
Re: Logic gates
Doesn't sound like a bad idea.Gilberreke wrote:With the BD update, time for a new thread to show off all the compact gates?Stormweaver wrote:Tbh, using the bd and pistons, I cant think of many/any logic gates that are too large or complex for use in MC.
I'll be happy to contribute later on if needbe.
PatriotBob wrote:Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: Logic gates
Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?Gilberreke wrote:As far as I can tell, pistons and BDs already fulfill large parts of this, so maybe we ought to explore which gates don't have simplified versions yet in BTW.
Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.
Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.
The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.
Re: Logic gates
Yeah, that was what I was getting at, it's time to do a full revision of the system to see if there's any holes left that still require huge contraptions for simple gates. I can't think of any of the top of my head.FlowerChild wrote:Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?
Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.
Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.
The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
- Stormweaver
- Posts: 3230
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:06 pm
Re: Logic gates
monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.Gilberreke wrote:Yeah, that was what I was getting at, it's time to do a full revision of the system to see if there's any holes left that still require huge contraptions for simple gates. I can't think of any of the top of my head.FlowerChild wrote:Well, I think I kinda prefer to take it from the angle of other feature suggestions: what is of particular annoyance in basic redstone circuitry that might be addressed through another means?
Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.
Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.
The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.
PatriotBob wrote:Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.
Re: Logic gates
In that case, RS NOR latches too. I seem to remember making really small monostables though, are you sure that's the smallest?Stormweaver wrote:monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
Re: Logic gates
You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.
FlowerChild: Ice in deserts is a good idea
Re: Logic gates
http://sargunster.com/btwforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=552
Mainly Havok and I explored the BD in traditional gates a few months ago. Maybe someone likes to add new information to this thread.
Mainly Havok and I explored the BD in traditional gates a few months ago. Maybe someone likes to add new information to this thread.
The other half is violence.TaterBoy wrote:Well, now I know. And as GI-Joe says, knowing is half the battle.
Unless you're GI Socrates. Then the other half is "You don't know anything
- TheAnarchitect
Re: Logic gates
You can make a T flip-flop, I don't see how you can make an RS NOR with BDs.Urian wrote:You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.
Come join us at Vioki's Discord! discord.gg/fhMK5kx
- Stormweaver
- Posts: 3230
- Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:06 pm
Re: Logic gates
well, it can be 2x3 but the input/output are in awkward places most of the time.Gilberreke wrote:In that case, RS NOR latches too. I seem to remember making really small monostables though, are you sure that's the smallest?Stormweaver wrote:monostables. Ok, they might not be huge as-such, but with the amount of use they see, it'd be nice to have something smaller/more insulated than the current 2x4 design.
PatriotBob wrote:Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.
Re: Logic gates
Right you are, sorry. I haven't played MC for some time now so my memory of circuits is getting a bit rusty.Gilberreke wrote:You can make a T flip-flop, I don't see how you can make an RS NOR with BDs.Urian wrote:You can already make an 2x2x1 RS NOR latch by using BDs. That's already small, anything that fits in 3x3x2 is compact IMO.
FlowerChild: Ice in deserts is a good idea
Re: Logic gates
Personally I favor the idea of having literally integrated redstone, where you still have to make it out of torches and repeaters and such but only much more compact. Something like a black box block that allows you to make a 16x16x16 redstone contraption inside and allows input/output through the faces. This might be unfeasible with the way the code is stuctured though. The entire idea of having different world instances in general could do lots of things; boats, moving mechanisms, integrated redstone etc. Seems useful.
-
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:38 pm
Re: Logic gates
That's inconsistent with fine tuning the BD to be a great single block RAM.FlowerChild wrote:It's the difference between working with vacuum tubes and working with integrated circuits, and it's huge. For that matter, it's also the difference between a furnace and a Kiln or Crucible.Awfulcopter wrote:I disagree. Once you know how to make the basic redstone gates the only challenge is making a room big enough to hold them. if you know you want an AND gate that leads to a FLIP FLOP then i don't really feel there's any difference in the experience if the AND and FLIP FLOP are each one block, or 30.
Some of us find it cool, and more in keeping with Minecraft, to be limited in our tech level and to work with large clunky circuits. Personally, I think there's also more of a sense of accomplishment that comes from making something out of basic redstone, and it provides an opportunity for people to learn more about digital circuitry than they would otherwise.
I've never even been tempted to install a mod that provides logic gate functionality. For me, it just takes too much away from the game.
- FlowerChild
- Site Admin
- Posts: 18753
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:24 pm
Re: Logic gates
You're selectively quoting me:Awfulcopter wrote:That's inconsistent with fine tuning the BD to be a great single block RAM.
Integrated redstone circuitry generally offers no such explanation as to the humongous jump in tech-level it represents.FlowerChild wrote: Like, I always found timing circuits to be a pain in the ass for no good reason (plus being buggy on save/load), so when someone suggested the turntable be able to rotate redstone torches, I jumped on that one.
Similarly, there's no real effective means for long-distance signal transmission in MC, and vertical transmission becomes rather painful, so I'm down with the idea of the Lens.
The BD as a ROM was entirely accidental, but I'm cool with it as it still offers some kind of internal game-logic explanation for why it's doing what it's doing.