Flint -> Gravel

[Necropolis]

Can we perhaps be able to turn flint into gravel? Being that it comes from gravel and if we were to smash it it would in fact turn into gravel. Obviously needs to be lossy, x amount flint -> 1 gravel.

[Stormweaver]

Hmm, a way of getting rid of flint would be nice. and sand is kinda useful.

I'm in support of any method of actually using flint in any way.

[walker_boh_65]

Flint->Gravel, I don't have any problems with it, since you do eventually get crap tons of flint laying around, and more gravel is just more glass no?

[DragonFire2876]

i would like but proberly not going to happen and besides to make it fair i think it would be a ration of 10 to 1 maybe higher

[Stormweaver]

i would like but proberly not going to happen and besides to make it fair i think it would be a ration of 10 to 1 maybe higher

really? The sand return isn't really that great. If we call c the number of flint required to get one gravel, in the end you get 1+1/(c-1) sand for every gravel you started with - so you'd only be getting 2 sand per gravel if it only took 2 flint for one.

Any ration above one is fair imo.

[Rosethorns]

I like it, I don't much like gravel, but I do like sand.

Because sand is glass and sandstone.

And I'm not near any sand.

Yep.

[ThatOneDude]

Maybe you could turn flint into glass?
irl glass is usually made from white sand, flint, (obviously ground) and other ground minerals. Then, it's heated, then stirred, blah blah blah.
I was interested in the "ground minerals" subject, so I did a little wikipedia-ing and apparently some of these minerals were ground in millstones :D
So perhaps you could like grind flint in the millstone to get flint powder then you could burn that to get glass?
Or, you could put both flint powder and sand in the crucible and get 2 glass or more for every 1 flint powder and 1 sand?
A more efficient way of getting more glass?
Or, here's an idea. Because coal dust is now called carbon powder, maybe you could also turn like a couple flint in the millstone into "carbon powder"
Or the flint powder idea. Either one.

[Necropolis]

.....
Or, we could turn flint into gravel.

[ThatOneDude]

But where's the use for gravel?
Sure, you can turn into sand- but when you do that, you get flint as well. Flint. Back to step one.
If you're proposing that we could get flint out of gravel on a 1:1 ratio, that would be unlimited sand. I doubt you are, though.
Just think about my ideas.

[Rosethorns]

But where's the use for gravel?
Sure, you can turn into sand- but when you do that, you get flint as well. Flint. Back to step one.
If you're proposing that we could get flint out of gravel on a 1:1 ratio, that would be unlimited sand. I doubt you are, though.
Just think about my ideas.

the idea is it takes multiple flint to make 1 gravel. That way it is lossy.

[Necropolis]

In fact I said as much. In my first post.

Obviously needs to be lossy, x amount flint -> 1 gravel.

The main concept here was to take the waste product of a production tech and "realistically" recycle it back into that process in a reducing recursive function in order to remove the waste and increase the yield. Taking the waste and adding additional technology and processes to effect the same thing is a far less efficient route. We don't make glass with flint, zinc, and silicon in Minecraft. We heat sand. Why would we need to add a process that mimics what we already have with far more work invested?

This is a game. We don't have to do everything as it is in real life. When I or FC references something in the historical record or the real world, it's more as a generational model for future additions to the game that currently have no manifestations. Not as manipulations of existing processes. That would get tedious fast. It's like the suggestion for loss of metal in recycling. Just because some high tech steel manufacturing has loss doesn't mean that Steve is using folded Damascus steel for his tools. Nobody wants to have to be familiar with every aspect of manufacturing/metallurgy/mechanics in order to accomplish an in-game goal. It wouldn't be feasible, and it probably wouldn't be fun, except maybe for that tiny portion of polymaths who could excel at the task.

Also, I didn't want to get drawn into an argument in which I would seem more aggressive than I wanted to be, but I mostly avoided your suggestions for two reasons. 1) I didn't want a simple suggestion devolving into a branching tech discussion and hijacking the thread, and 2) FC really doesn't like people suggesting additional uses for the millstone. He's been harassed about it to the point that I suspect even historical uses would annoy him. He tends to like archetypal devices, and using an agricultural implement as a macerator is a significant jump in functionality.

[Husbag3]

I think this seems a bit counter productive. The hopper with the filter to get sand and flint was to get rid of your gravel and now were complaining about too much flint?

[Flesh_Engine]

According to the wiki Flint has been used historically as material for tools/building/jewelry, of these we have 2 covered (gravelblock & Arrows);

General applications as Flintsinks would be;

While Steve can make swords and iron bars now, he is apparently unable to manufacture a woorden stick with a pointy end to put at the bottom of his pits or walls to impale unwary mobs; suspension of disbelief = pierced. While agreed, it would be using a block ID; it adds the benefit of getting the player in the whole "defend my fort" state of mind faster by offering a simple defense that needs to be replaced or upgraded after a while which ties in with the "Age" feel. What this amounts to is something like the Punji Sticks; would be useful to place as a rudimentary defense against mobs; limited amount of applications (ie breaks after X uses), sticks & flint...Here

EDIT: while on the toilet i thought some more of the implications of using a block id on this. Image the effect on the player; he could now be content with finding gravel at any point in the game since this means that he has another option available to him that is of use to him now and in the future. It actually ties in nicely with the current hopper filter in that due to Steve's "filtering expertise" he can produce these defenses faster since you can now have 100% flintrate. Sure, they're sticks with sharp stuff on them, yet if you place enough of them you can wear down the enemy (like the VC did for example).

Flint could also be a subsitute in the Shears recipe yet with a reduced amount of uses.

Ultimately the problem with Flint as such is that as a byproduct it does not have a lot of uses. Instead of forcing an entire process of recycling on it; why not just have more uses for it to reduce accumulation?

A conversion recipe of "X Flint (+ Y Sand) = 1 Gravel" is imo not worth currently considering since it adds nothing that amounts to anything. Gravel/Sand Generators handle the production of these materials and at least require thinking up a device for them even though they are glitchbased. If this glitch was to be removed then i might welcome the simple "X Flint (+ Y Sand) = 1 Gravel" and be done with it.

Also consider that in the current model adding such a conversion recipe for flint to gravel does not solve the problem of flint being useless; it simply makes gravel more abundant...

[the_fodder]

I like the idea of recycling the flint back into gravel at a loss if it can be done without dedicated block id or fit into another device that FC has planned.

My personal problem is with filtering Gravel has a 100% return of flint and sand I think giving it a lower % would even out the issue of having to much flint.

[Necropolis]

One of the first things people said when we became able to split gravel into sand and flint was that we no longer had to strip the face off deserts and the like for large scale constructions with glass and sandstone. Both of these materials require vast quantities of sand. VAST. If you don't believe me, try making a sixty wide circle of sandstone. Just a circle. You will end up using over 170 stacks of sand.

It's not a question of making flint useful, although I don't understand the suggestion that allowing it to be turned into gravel wouldn't solve its usefulness problem. If we can use gravel, then being able to turn flint into gravel would make flint useful, just by having to add an additional step. That's like saying that adding pottery doesn't make clay useful. I personally mine for gravel now, because that's the only effective way of getting sufficient quantities of building materials. I can make cobblestone, I can dig up as much as I need, I can cook any of that into stone or stone bricks, but I can't do that for sand.

I also wasn't suggesting punji sticks, or trying to find a way to incorporate flint into the tech tree. Both of those suggestions are just that: suggestions. They need their own thread. They HAVE their own threads. This is not "find a use for x." This is "I have a use for x. It makes perfect sense within the scope of what already exists. It makes use of tech. It is simple. It is extremely useful. It negates the annoying and wasteful (and not rationally limiting) problems with a current process that people perpetually complain about. It uses no block IDs, is simple to code, doesn't use large numbers of recipes, requires no hooks, no additional thought to incorporate into our constructions. It would be helpful." And I do not think that infinite and rapid accumulation of these materials via what is obviously a game bug is a balanced or fair argument.

[Shengji]

...try making a sixty wide circle of sandstone. Just a circle. You will end up using over 170 stacks of sand.

That's a filled circle right, because I just made a 45 wide ring and used 91 stacks of sand.

EDIT: No, it's a ring isn't it...WOW

[FurkeyRefills]

Sand isn't that hard to come by if you take advantage of the sticky piston bug ;)
I can get a stack of sand from one flick of a lever by the way I have mine set up ;)
It is a bit cheap tho :/

[the_fodder]

bug

nuff said.

This is just a full circle suggestion like being able to make items with both woodblock and moldings.

[GabLann4]

Flint is a rock that u find in gravel soil, so maybe if u mixed sand, flint, cobble and dirt u could make gravel, but gravel is not worth that...