Scrolls...ok, wtf is going on?

[Tsugumi Henduluin]

I'm not sure that putting a bunch of designers to work developing Minecraft further would have been a great idea either, because then you'd have had 100 dinnerbones adding in pointless features instead of just a few people.

Isn't that pretty much the MC mod scene in a nutshell? I mean, aside from a few of the larger,more known mods that are at least trying to make something resembling a balanced game (which then gets promptly destroyed by all the other mods people tend to install along with them), most MC mods are basically just cheats.

Anyway, I've pretty much ignored Scrolls up until now, but I must say it does look somewhat interesting. I've always really liked CCGs but found them to be massive moneysinks. If Scrolls stays f2p without the option to buy all the Black Lotuses you could ever need with your parents' money, I might give it a shot... Once they add a PayPal option that is. I'm amazed a European company forgot, or didn't bother, to add that as credit cards are rarely used over here :/ Pretty sure Minecraft had a PayPal option from the start as well. Odd.

[Vexalor]

I really don't think we should be going this far.

Yeah, I need to quench my rage sometimes, but damn did that UHC video throw me off. He just gave the impression that he had absolutely no idea what he was doing, either in playing his own game or developing it. But you're totally right, none of this is his fault in any way, and he doesn't deserve my hate.

He's been tossed into this with no way to prepare whatever, and there really isn't anything anyone can do or could have done about it. Nonetheless, I stand by my previous points. I wasn't necessarily implying that Mojang set Dinnerbone on the task of developing Minecraft because he was unskilled as a game designer (although, in retrospect, I really sounded like it), I think that they put him in this unfortunate position to be a sort of popular development front. He is exactly what you say, a kid. So is much of the Minecraft playerbase, and I believe that Dinnerbone and Jeb are meant to simply keep the cash flowing by being popular and relate-able and ostensibly continuing the development of Minecraft as a game to support Mojang as it moves on to what they assume are greener pastures (and which very well might be).

As long Minecraft is still apparently under development, no one can complain and the playerbase continues to grow because people can just say "they'll get to it eventually" or "someday they'll get to that feature" or "the Mod API will be coming in the next release, then everything will be better."

[Sarudak]

Ok. I bought the game and I'm liking it so far. Not sure I like the idea of grinding to get scrolls but I suppose it's better than pay-to-win...

[FlowerChild]

I'm not sure that putting a bunch of designers to work developing Minecraft further would have been a great idea either, because then you'd have had 100 dinnerbones adding in pointless features instead of just a few people.

Ummmm...where the have I ever implied it would be? All I've ever advocated is Minecraft having a single *strong* designer running the show.

I suspect you may have some confusion between what a programmer is and what a designer is.

[Sarudak]

Indeed. Minecraft *has* a number of programmers working on it. All indications are that it has no designer at all.

[FlowerChild]

Ok. I bought the game and I'm liking it so far. Not sure I like the idea of grinding to get scrolls but I suppose it's better than pay-to-win...

I'm not sure what the alternative would be here though, as really, that's at the core of all collectible games. It's just that in the table-top variety, the "grind" is working your job to get the money to pay for more cards ;)

[Sarudak]

The alternative would be to simply give everyone all the cards and let them build the deck they want without a grind? They could charge for expansion sets though.

[FlowerChild]

The alternative would be to simply give everyone all the cards and let them build the deck they want without a grind? They could charge for expansion sets though.

Ick. Yeah, I think that would kill most of the addictive nature of such games man. It's the difference between a collectable card game and just a card game.

My impression was that you got gold, and hence cards, for just regular play though, and that you got the most for ranked matches, which are really the standard mode. Not such how that's more grindy than most games of the kind.

[Tsugumi Henduluin]

Ick. Yeah, I think that would kill most of the addictive nature of such games man. It's the difference between a collectable card game and just a card game.

Not to mention that it will most likely result in cookie-cutter decks that everyone and their grandmother will copy until people just stop playing out of boredom. Sure, there will still be cookie-cutter builds now, but as people won't know what cards to get they'll be forced to at least try some other cards in their decks until they get what they initially wanted. And that might make them realize they like that better, creating build differentiation... or so I would suspect anyway. I have no idea how easy it is to get cards in-game, so it might not even matter all that much.

[Sarudak]

Also if anyone wants to challenge me my handle is the same as on the forums. :)

[SterlingRed]

Keep in mind, Mojang has a history of being too enthusiastic about player suggestions. I want to like scrolls, I really do. But unfortunately the below tweet does not give me much hope that the current game balance won't get messed with.

Case in point, https://twitter.com/JahKob/status/342286439381352448

I'm in the scrolls chat getting bombarded with feature suggestions, and they are all awesome!! I gotto get coding soon!

[dawnraider]

This does seem like a good game, but unless they can grow a spiky exoskeleton, and fast, which is unlikely considering the above, I believe my perspective will soon change.

EDIT: grammar

[FlowerChild]

Keep in mind, Mojang has a history of being too enthusiastic about player suggestions. I want to like scrolls, I really do. But unfortunately the below tweet does not give me much hope that the current game balance won't get messed with.

Case in point, https://twitter.com/JahKob/status/342286439381352448

I'm in the scrolls chat getting bombarded with feature suggestions, and they are all awesome!! I gotto get coding soon!

Ick. Ok, yeah, that just turned me off completely :)

I wonder if developers even realize that there's a certain segment that considers listening to community suggestions as a bad thing.

[Shengji]

Ick. Ok, yeah, that just turned me off completely :)

I wonder if developers even realize that there's a certain segment that considers listening to community suggestions as a bad thing.

Oh god, I watched TB's video too and was pleasantly surprised but in the back of my mind (probably because I've designed an LCG (very similar to a ccg) and seen it get ruined by cards released later which screw up the balance so badly) that this game will remain good if subsequent cards added are balanced, which gets really difficult. Mojang do not have a great track record at this so right now, I don't trust them enough to invest the amount of time card games demand!

[Thorium-232]

...seen it get ruined by cards released later which screw up the balance so badly

This is the sort of thing that's happening to the Magic: The Gathering games. The original one that came out for consoles a few years back was pretty damn good, but now it seems that the decks supplied in the new releases (Magic 2013 is a serious offender at this) are pure gimmicks and it's a race to the bottom to see who wins in a match. Things like the Panoptic Mirror/Time Warp combo have made the game unplayable at times.

I worry about their ability to balance a CCG. You have to be ready to swing a nerf stick hard and fast to keep order maintained in such a complex, many-to-many environment, especially when you've got one ear leaned towards the peanut gallery.

[Shengji]

Hehe, magic's always had problems with balance - I've got a card which literally instructs you to flip a coin to determine the game winner! That one was from '95.

[Tsugumi Henduluin]

You sure that isn't an Unhinged card? Pretty sure those were joke cards, like the one that required you to cut the card in four pieces, throw them in the air and remove all permanents that they touched on landing.

But man, that tweet. Part of me feels it's meant sarcastically (mostly due to the !!!s), although experience tells me otherwise. Sad.

[SterlingRed]

I'm hoping it was slightly sarcasm. Or in the least that it's the result of being enthusiastic about the game release and that once he gets into the details of coding and balancing the ideas that he'll realize there are few very few diamonds in the rough.

[kregoth]

I knew I was going to see you say something about this game FlowerChild, so much that I logged back in to post about it myself :)

I have to give it to Mojang, I really like this game! It's very BETA that's for sure, but damn it's brilliant. I have not had this much of in interest in CCG sense MtG back in 2001. The board is what makes this game so fun and tactical. It's a really fresh twist and so far it's great. Though it's got some room to grow.

Keep your eye's on this game!

One Thing: I do wish the $20 beta pre-order gave us some shards as well, because it's not really clear whether or not this game will end up F2P or not, and I REALLY want to build more decks :).

[Sarudak]

I'm really enjoying the game so far! The board is really really awesome!

[FlowerChild]

I knew I was going to see you say something about this game FlowerChild, so much that I logged back in to post about it myself :)

While you're here, please check your PM account man.

[kregoth]

I'm really enjoying the game so far! The board is really really awesome!

What deck did you choose? I picked growth I always loved green decks for MtG. Though they did a really shitty job constructing that deck, none of the cards really work well with each other except wolves.

Like why the hell do I have 3 Rat walls in my deck, when I have no rats cards?

[FlowerChild]

Son of a bitch...

Kreg, up until this moment, I had forgotten just how many games you caused me to impulse buy (usually with no regrets), just by talking about them.

I missed you...you bastard :)

[FlowerChild]

What deck did you choose? I picked growth I always loved green decks for MtG. Though they did a really shitty job constructing that deck, none of the cards really work well with each other except wolves.

Wait...I thought the "starter decks" were similar to the Magic ones (or at least the old ones...it's been 20 years since I bought one and I have no idea what they're like now), in terms of being a relatively random assortment of cards that are only really organized in terms of revolving around a specific color.

Are you sure they're actually prebuilt in terms of being designed by someone?

[Sarudak]

They are prebuilt AFAIK. I chose an order deck but I wish I had gone with energy. I plan to build a dual deck as soon as I get enough cards.