Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion

[Six]

• 'Rebalanced' bonemeal so that all crops take an average of around 2.5 bonemeal to grow, but I think trees remain at 2?

So here's a question... why not just make it so that bones give one bonemeal? Wouldn't that balance it out? So 1 bone = 1 crop, Which is pretty much what they're doing now.

Bandaids. I've been seeing this more and more lately with changes, where they stick something new on top of what is there to try and fix it, rather than actually looking at what is the source of the problem. Sure this can actually work in some cases, but often it doesn't actually address what the real problem is and you end up with a rickety scaffold of 'fixes', where you are treating symptoms, not causes (I think my metaphor lost it's way somewhere there...).

[PureZaros]

No, your analogy was pretty spot on there. It's like putting a band-aid on a malignant tumor and saying "It'll get better."

[Gears]

No, your analogy was pretty spot on there. It's like putting a band-aid on a malignant tumor and saying "It'll get better."

It's like dinnerbone is afraid of admitting that he made a boo-boo by adding a feature. I wouldn't be worried about a feature getting cut because it caused exploits or it just sucked in theory/practice, but when he leaves the feature as is and pushes its issues under the fridge it genuinely scares me shitless.

[dawnraider]

I believe a more accurate analogy would be a doctor doing minor surgery, then cut a major artery, and put a piece of scotch tape on it, but didn't realize something was wrong. If minecraft stops development (pray that it does!) and/or the devs get a brain (not likely,and if they did, the former would likely result) then the game will slowly decline into nothingness.

[Gormador]

Don't say they "don't have a brain". It's not true. They are only completely out of their field.

[Wibbles]

Are there any other online communities who express the same level of dissatisfaction with the way MC is turning out, or do the denizens of this forum simply have a more refined view on good game design? I have had a quick look through the minecraftforum.com forums but see little sign of dissent, not that I expected much.

I think the question I'm trying to ask is, does anyone outside BTW actually care about the way Jeb/Dinnerbone design the game?

[Thalarctia]

Are there any other online communities who express the same level of dissatisfaction with the way MC is turning out, or do the denizens of this forum simply have a more refined view on good game design? I have had a quick look through the minecraftforum.com forums but see little sign of dissent, not that I expected much.

I think the question I'm trying to ask is, does anyone outside BTW actually care about the way Jeb/Dinnerbone design the game?

I think a large part of it is that we see in BTW what minecraft "could have been". If you haven't tried the mod (and given it a proper chance), you do not have that comparison. I know a lot of my friends used to be rather psyched about every minecraft update, but after trying BTW and seeing the latest snapshots, they too go "what the *bleep* are they thinking..?".

[Six]

I think a large part of it is that we see in BTW what minecraft "could have been". If you haven't tried the mod (and given it a proper chance), you do not have that comparison. I know a lot of my friends used to be rather psyched about every minecraft update, but after trying BTW and seeing the latest snapshots, they too go "what the *bleep* are they thinking..?".

I think one of the best examples of this is with the latest updates FC has done to beacons. He has changed them to exactly what I thought Mojang was going to do after the idea first appeared in a snapshot, namely making effect depends on material and size.

[Simurgh]

Are there any other online communities who express the same level of dissatisfaction with the way MC is turning out, or do the denizens of this forum simply have a more refined view on good game design? I have had a quick look through the minecraftforum.com forums but see little sign of dissent, not that I expected much.

I think the question I'm trying to ask is, does anyone outside BTW actually care about the way Jeb/Dinnerbone design the game?

I used to think that, I looked at the BTW thread on MCF once upon a time and thought, jeez these guys are negative.

Now having really tried this mod out through most of the tech tree I am really starting to see what they've been on about this whole time. I'm no expert on game design or anything but I can't see their long term game design emerging from the features added it's like nothing compliments anything and every feature is stand-alone.

Also what they said ^^^

[FlowerChild]

I think that it's simply a case of "most players don't know what they want until they play it". Otherwise, if everyone could anticipate what it is they would find most fun, they would all be game designers :)

I think this holds true for most media, which is a big part why individuals with particular skill sets are required for the act of creating just about anything of value.

Minecraft is a great game, so not knowing any better or having anything to really compare it to, it's only natural that most would welcome the new additions to the game and perceive it as more of what they love, rather than a slow erosion of the same.

[Simurgh]

I think that it's simply a case of "most players don't know what they want until they play it".

This defo holds true for me with features like hardcore beds. I couldn't go back to being able to skip night now, it's so.... meh being able to skip night.

Sometime I love you FC, other times, I hate that I love you. Especially when a creeper blows my new fancy building to hell.

[FlowerChild]

This defo holds true for me with features like hardcore beds. I couldn't go back to being able to skip night now, it's so.... meh being able to skip night.

Oh gods yeah. That's definitely true when it comes to taking power *away* from the player, which most will reflexively react negatively to from the get go.

I am pleased however that I seem to have built up enough trust in the community where I'm beginning to see comments like "I think I'll hate this change but I trust you enough to play it to see if it's fun". For a long time I avoided making changes of that nature as I knew people would react negatively to them, but it really feels like people are starting to get used to me doing that kind of thing now and have really started to appreciate the thought I put into it.

[johnt]

I think mojang is moving toward 'adventure mode' and custom maps being the default mode for people who want a real gameplay challenge, and 'survival' being more the 'toy' mode with a very light challenge and a little bit of motivation, and 'creative' being mostly for testing, experimentation and free builds, rather than 'play'.

Personally I think that's a perfectly valid approach for designing the game, personally, especially since I think they have such a huge proportion of little kids and non-hardcore gamers playing it (and paying for it).

I love BTW. It's the only way I play minecraft. But my nephews are like 5 and 6 years old and they love vanilla and I think they would be hopelessly frustrated with BTW. I think there are a lot more minecraft players like my nephews than there are like me. I do think that BTW is closer to notch's original vision of the game than the current version of minecraft is, though.

[FlowerChild]

I don't think that at all covers what is happening man.

Sure, you can design for a younger audience (I've designed kid's titles myself in the past), and BTW is definitely designed for an older one (given that's the kind of player I am).

However, as far as I can tell, vanilla isn't designed for anyone at present. It's more the absence of design that we're seeing.

Take a look at redstone for example. It's certainly not designed for kids, and none of the upcoming changes make it more accessible either (if anything, the analog redstone concepts complicate it substantially). It could be argued that the mechanical power in BTW is actually a much simpler concept to wrap your head around which lessens the slope of the overall learning curve in approaching more technical aspects of the game

Poor design is just poor design. At its core, Minecraft itself is an awesome game, which is why many still enjoy it, but I really don't think it can be argued that many of the recent design decisions that have been made on it have been geared towards anyone in particular.

[DaveYanakov]

I wonder how much of that ties into a natural human drive to seek out a challenge. After all, the challenge maps like Skyblock or survival island seeds have been around almost as long as Minecraft itself as a non-modded way to make a game out of the kit provided by vMC. I would hypothesize that any hardship placed on the player in the name of gameplay will end up being seen in a positive light.

Hard for the sake of being hard will only ever find a niche audience. A game that allows you to choose just how much challenge you want to deal with in an organic way that works without toggling boxes or moving sliders in a menu? That's going to be a game for the masses.

[bcsnipershot]

Ok so what I have seen so far my opinions are mixed:
Cons:
1) The hopper cart being able to pick up items off the ground doesn't make sence
2) The dropper should just be a option in the dispenser GUI
3) dispensing bonemeal
4)daylight sensors only because it felt satisfying to build the old ones

Inbetween:
1) budblocks
2)dispensing with a flint and steel

Pros:
1)Having a vinnila hopper is cool
2)mobs disliking to walk on tracks is cool (I would want neutral and passive mobs only though)
3)dispensing armor on to you is cool, but highly unneeded
4)being able to have dispensers face up
5) The competitor is awesome (all the features, because mojang (even from notch times) is about giving you a lot of creative options in one block)
6)redstone block
7)Nether quartz (it looks amassing)
7)dialog red stone

Overall they are adding a bunch of cool but highly unneccisary things... If I forgot something please tell me, also this is only my opinion, so don't hate on my opinion, because its my opinion.

[FlowerChild]

If I forgot something please tell me, also this is only my opinion, so don't hate on my opinion, because its my opinion.

This was a decent troll up until the above. Better luck next time.

[Sarudak]

7)dialog red stone

Finally something in minecraft that can hold a conversation!

[wirer]

Personally, i would like the comparator, but only because it can detect block inventory. it would be useful to be able to stop my pottery system when i run out of clay. my attempts at an auto-tube kiln have been difficult.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Always the odd one out, I always wanted a way to automatically switch the armour you are wearing.

I almost made a suggestion that block dispensers can suck and replace armour on you, but it was quite problematic so I never did make it.

The main reason is, swapping from other armours to SFS armour, ever since the changes to it. Having a quick way to swap armour and avoid the clickfest would be very nice, just step on a plate and voila.

The dispenser now does half of this, and I like it, but it feels half a feature to me. Oh well.

[FlowerChild]

Always the odd one out, I always wanted a way to automatically switch the armour you are wearing.

I almost made a suggestion that block dispensers can suck and replace armour on you, but it was quite problematic so I never did make it.

The main reason is, swapping from other armours to SFS armour, ever since the changes to it. Having a quick way to swap armour and avoid the clickfest would be very nice, just step on a plate and voila.

The dispenser now does half of this, and I like it, but it feels half a feature to me. Oh well.

I never would have gone for that man, as it doesn't suit the functionality of the BD at all.

I'm half tempted to rip it out of the vanilla dispenser as it strikes me as pure silliness, but given that it's relatively harmless, especially in comparison to some of the other upcoming changes, I'll probably just leave it alone.

But yeah...not something I would have done myself.

[Six]

Always the odd one out, I always wanted a way to automatically switch the armour you are wearing.

I almost made a suggestion that block dispensers can suck and replace armour on you, but it was quite problematic so I never did make it.

The main reason is, swapping from other armours to SFS armour, ever since the changes to it. Having a quick way to swap armour and avoid the clickfest would be very nice, just step on a plate and voila.

The dispenser now does half of this, and I like it, but it feels half a feature to me. Oh well.

The thing I've always wanted for this, which would fit SO much better in MC, is a clothing dummy. Would let you display armor and could be used to quickly swap out what you are wearing. It surprises me that after adding item frames they didn't go for something like that, but I guess in all honesty the dispenser equipping mechanic was another feature added specifically for SethBling and co.

[ion]

as some from Mojang says that they are for a total change in how the dispenser works. expect the dispenser to behave like the BD from BTW. of course only half finished until they have the new greatest idea and mess another item around. for me i like only the new placement for dispenser the rest is just crap, half made and only for creative or adventure

[Battosay]

Troy Livingstone
@Dinnerbone @fireclaw316 I for one would like you to implement for those who play the game, not those that play maps/minigames

Nathan Adams
@Trodoil @fireclaw316 Whereas I would like to implement things for everybody who plays the game, and not specifically just survival mode!

Well that explains a lot ...

[Six]

Troy Livingstone
@Dinnerbone @fireclaw316 I for one would like you to implement for those who play the game, not those that play maps/minigames

Nathan Adams
@Trodoil @fireclaw316 Whereas I would like to implement things for everybody who plays the game, and not specifically just survival mode!

Well that explains a lot ...

My calculations here aren't entirely accurate, due to things like people owning multiple copies, piracy and using planet minecraft data, but I decided to run some numbers.

If we look at number of downloads on the most popular stuff on planet minecraft as some kind of indication of how many people are playing custom maps (it does top a lot of search results), then the top 10 things have an average of about 360k downloads (from 260k to nearly 600k). Minecraft total sales are reported on their site as of now as being 9,207,291 copies.

360k / 9207k works out to just about 4%. That leaves around 96% of purchases having not downloaded those top 10 maps. Of course as I already stated, this number could be wildly off as we don't know about downloads outside of planet minecraft or piracy rates or anything, but as a rough indicator it does say that the majority of people are not 'everybody who plays the game'.