What is BWF?

[Graphite]

Let's face it, that particular thread really had run its course.

[EvanT]

Let's face it, that particular thread really had run its course.

Yes it did.

On Topic: (What is BWF?)
So what is it? Is it a remake, an interface layer, a RTE, a modloader which can load modloader mots into forge, a reviewed copy of someone else's work (like altering the homework just enough so the copy is not obvious) Or is it something in between. To be clear: It is a Rip-off and violation either way.

Like I did say on the vMC-Forum I thought that it is an interface layer but I'm not sure any more.

FC said that (they) did have a look at his decompiled code and did a rewrite so it could run on forge and is using (the geometric code and) the Textures from the original BTW-Zip. I find this hard to belief, we always wonder at the enormous speed of FC's work. So how could they reproduce it even faster than he without copying at least most parts of his code?

An Interface layer, RTE or modloader would have big problems due to the base class edits and other aspects.

Since I'm not familiar with MC-modding could someone clear this up?

While watching parts of the stream I noticed that some people were surprised that BTW-Stuff was on the server.. so how could that be possible if they had to download the BTW-Zip in order to log into the server? Is there some automatic client update implemented in forge or is the modded client available for download? Either way they are redistributing MC and BTW files. Or the Surprise is fake.

[Graphite]

From what I've gathered, BwF is a remake of BtW with a completely new codebase. The only reason that BtW is even needed is because they'd be violating copyright if they distributed FC's textures with their mod. Therefore they require you to toss BtW in the config folder, so they can read the textures from there.

As for their speed: reproducing the behaviour of existing code is virtually always faster than creating the code the first time. Their speed at remaking it therefore doesn't particularly surprise me. Keep in mind that, while you're developing a feature, you're likely to rewrite the same code five times over before it works as you want it to. If they do look at the BtW code (which wouldn't surprise me) it becomes even easier as you can just take the ideas behind the code and reimplement them in your own way.

A good example of this would be the logic-block used for detectors and lenses. Actually coming up with and designing that thing must've taken quite some effort. For BwF however, they already know they need to add a 'magic' block and they already know how it's supposed to interact with its environment (particularly if they look at the BtW code).

[EvanT]

Yes but it would still take longer than what a week or two? The only way I can find the speed plausible is if they are doing what I tried to describe with the homework analogy like you said too.
And I guess this is not the work of one but at least a small team.

[DAGR99]

From what I've gathered, BwF is a remake of BtW with a completely new codebase. The only reason that BtW is even needed is because they'd be violating copyright if they distributed FC's textures with their mod. Therefore they require you to toss BtW in the config folder, so they can read the textures from there.

As for their speed: reproducing the behaviour of existing code is virtually always faster than creating the code the first time. Their speed at remaking it therefore doesn't particularly surprise me. Keep in mind that, while you're developing a feature, you're likely to rewrite the same code five times over before it works as you want it to. If they do look at the BtW code (which wouldn't surprise me) it becomes even easier as you can just take the ideas behind the code and reimplement them in your own way.

A good example of this would be the logic-block used for detectors and lenses. Actually coming up with and designing that thing must've taken quite some effort. For BwF however, they already know they need to add a 'magic' block and they already know how it's supposed to interact with its environment (particularly if they look at the BtW code).

I believe Lex admitted he looked at the code.

[Wgurgh]

Typical of the way they always end up going, find some minor detail and nag it to death. Blow it all out of proportion and get the topic closed so they don't have to keep trying to defend the indefensible.

Edit: WTF? just read the comment by the mod that locked the thread. So MCF is just going to stick its head in the sand on this one too?

[destineternel]

And the moderator that locked the thread is involved somewhat with forgecraft. Link to that new forgecraft group pic in spoiler, note in the lower right quarter his name and avatar are in the picture. Also note sirsengir was watching that thread as he gave Sacheverell a 'like' for locking the thread.

Spoiler

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https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25591134/Forge ... -Names.jpg

[Ozziie]

And the moderator that locked the thread is involved somewhat with forgecraft. Link to that new forgecraft group pic in spoiler, note in the lower right quarter his name and avatar are in the picture. Also note sirsengir was watching that thread as he gave Sacheverell a 'like' for locking the thread.

Spoiler

Show

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25591134/Forge ... -Names.jpg

Evilseph and Grum (pictured top left) are also Mojang employees while Sacheverell (who locked the thread) is the guy who posts the News to the front page of the Minecraft Forums. I didn't realise how whole heartedly they're behind the Forge.

[destineternel]

Well Grum is lurking in #btw along with some of the forgecraft people in that picture.

[Talrea]

getting one of their moderaters to lock the tread is just....

[walker_boh_65]

And the moderator that locked the thread is involved somewhat with forgecraft. Link to that new forgecraft group pic in spoiler, note in the lower right quarter his name and avatar are in the picture. Also note sirsengir was watching that thread as he gave Sacheverell a 'like' for locking the thread.

Spoiler

Show

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/25591134/Forge ... -Names.jpg

Morvy is there? Since when did she hang with the forge guys? (I must be out of the loop recently cause I seem to have missed a lot)

[Padfoote]

Morvy is there? Since when did she hang with the forge guys? (I must be out of the loop recently cause I seem to have missed a lot)

Seems like it's been a gradual change, although I'm not 100% sure. I'm just going off of what her youtube account has on it.

[embirrim]

Morvy is there? Since when did she hang with the forge guys? (I must be out of the loop recently cause I seem to have missed a lot)

She appeared in a Direwolf video over a month ago I think. I guess she must have joined when they did the BTW episodes with florastar and slowpoke. I haven't seen her around here at all tbh, don't know why.

[PhantasticJoe]

To be entirely fair, the locking was absolutely necessary. The thread was not going anywhere, as the people in it had latched on to the whole rape analogy, because they can't understand the difference between analogous in nature and analogous in magnitude...

Anyways, It's absolutely reasonable that the thread should be locked, and I think personally that Sachaverell's message is a decent one, and makes sense even from an impartial point of view. "Us vs. Them" threads inevitably turn into flame wars. Flame wars are bad for the mods at MCF. Politely requesting that they not exist is fairly logical.

[Talrea]

it did get alot of veiws though, i just hope the right people saw it, well i guess we can only wait and see what happens.

[Ulfengaard]

My avatar and signature were removed as well. My faith in MCF is just as lacking as it was before.

[Mac]

*Sigh*

Looks like I have no choice but to cut my "sort of" hibernation short.

The Issue at hand really is sad in my honest opinion.
And please don't get me wrong, I mean the outright disrespect of someones creative wishes and principles
and furthermore being proud of it (As far as I understand the matter and ongoing discussions).
This truly is inexcusable and bringing it to public view and discourse is ultimately the right thing to do.
Not that I said anything new here that has not already been said, but every statement will help in
keeping it in the public eye.

Additionally,
while Morvelaira does seem to have relations with some members of the forge community, there was a stream where
she did play an adventure map with some of them and the ongoing "ftb" episodes over at twitch.
But as long as she does not publicly states her standpoint in all of this
we should assume she has a neutral view.
As long standing member of this community we should give her the benefit of the doubt at least,
and not jump to any conclusions as long as we do not know for sure.

[destineternel]

My avatar and signature were removed as well. My faith in MCF is just as lacking as it was before.

wait?! are they altering peoples avatars and signatures?

[Ulfengaard]

They did mine because both had the 'no means no' in them.

[azagal73]

They did mine because both had the 'no means no' in them.

I just checked my profile over there and I seem to still have both intact.

[dawnraider]

They did mine because both had the 'no means no' in them.

This is ridiculous. We protest against the obvious rip-off and ask to keep our peace, and MCF seems to be taking the side of the forge. It would be fine to turn their back to the problem (though not the best option), but they actually defend (albeit indirectly) the trolls/idiots/copiers/*insert other offensive name here*. While I had little faith in MCF before, now it is completely gone.

[FlowerChild]

Well, a few issues that seem to have popped up overnight:

The nature of BWF: Guys, I linked above both BWF's home-page, and quoted the statement it makes there that it *is* a copy of BTW. There's absolutely no confusion with regards to that other than what the other side of the debate is trying to induce into the situation. I'd really appreciate it if people took a close look at the information already provided for themselves before asking questions like that, as ultimately, such questions are only serving to further muddy the issue.

The thing with regards to needing to copy BTW into your config folder is *only* there to access the mod textures and give BWF a veneer of legitimacy (thus further confusing the issue). It can also be as easily bypassed as installing a texture pack, so BTW is actually in no way required to run BWF...they just want to make it look that way.

Morvelaira: She is no longer welcome in these forums for reasons both within and outside of this debate. I will say though that she made an appearance in that 7 hour Stream promoting BWF, which was the point at which her not being welcome, became a ban. I personally am not aware of the extent of her involvement or position on BWF, but the extent of her connection with the Forge community (including her close association with BWF supporters like SlowPoke), and thus BWF has become significant enough that I am no longer comfortable with her presence here.

MCF Thread: Holy crap. Ok, I'm still wading through what happened in that one before it was locked down, but again guys, massive thanks for your support there. And yes, it's certain that we're facing a huge amount of bias from the community right now given that almost the entire modding scene has moved over to Forge and BTW largely stands alone against that. I will say though that I take the thread getting shut-down, especially given the activity you guys mentioned above revolving around that, that BWF supporters are being made to feel quite uncomfortable about this and would really prefer that we shut-up and went away.

Our banners still seem quite prominent on the MCF though, so it really doesn't look like they're being removed, or if they are, then it's only in isolated incidents right now.

[Ulfengaard]

The removal could have been a technical snafu, I suppose. Just seemed too coincidental.

[Mason11987]

They did mine because both had the 'no means no' in them.

I received an infraction for a post in that thread and didn't have my avatar or signature changed,

[Ulfengaard]

Amazingly, I managed to avoid any infractions, in spite of the clear bias and the fact I reported a moderator. Lucky dodge, I guess.